D&D 4E Should 4e martial artists have "monk" flavor?

[JohnSnow]

I'd rather see the martial artist become a proper archetype in its own right, and leave the specific flavor of that character to the player.

The same class could, in my mind, cover the swordsage, the monk, the psionic warrior, and the Defender from Midnight. I have no idea what you'd call it though... :\

 

[Gloombunny]

I'd like to see the ascetic flavor divorced from the bare-knuckle fighting. I should be able to play a non-ascetic fistfighter or a monastic swordsman just as well.

(Book of Nine Swords gave us the latter with the swordsage class, at least.)

 

[JohnSnow]

I'd like to see the ascetic flavor divorced from the bare-knuckle fighting. I should be able to play a non-ascetic fistfighter or a monastic swordsman just as well.

(Book of Nine Swords gave us the latter with the swordsage class, at least.)

I agree. Although I actually think it should be possible to model the former with a fighter or fighter/rogue who specializes in unarmed combat.

There honestly aren't a lot of western archetypes for characters who fight entirely unarmed. But many heroes from western myths and legends are certainly no slouch with their bare hands (Thor, Hercules, Beowulf, etc.).

 

[Gloombunny]

I agree. Although I actually think it should be possible to model the former with a fighter or fighter/rogue who specializes in unarmed combat.

Oh, I agree. I wasn't saying there should be separate classes for each thing, necessarily. I just want to be able to play each of those concepts in some way.

(The way I'd do things is to have fist-fighting options for fighters that are competitive with their weapon options, and then a swordsage-like class with ascetic mystic combat powers that also has both empty-hand options and weapon options.)

 

[Ranger REG]

How important do you think the actual "monk" flavor of the monk class is to the game? Is it something that should be removed in favor of a more generic martial arts class? Should 4e maintain the name and flavor, but avoid any religion-oriented mechanics? Or should the monk-iness of the class be embraced and, perhaps, better defined? Place your vote and comment here!

WEGGI: What E. Gary Gygax Intended (he was inspired by the Kung Fu TV series).

 

[Darth Cyric]

Where's the "Give Fighters/Rangers/Rogues/Paladins viable unarmed combat feats/talents/powers" option?

EDIT: Also needs a "No: Philosopher-warrior characters aren't necessarily monks, either" option.

 

[Darth Cyric]

I'd like to see the ascetic flavor divorced from the bare-knuckle fighting. I should be able to play a non-ascetic fistfighter or a monastic swordsman just as well.

(Book of Nine Swords gave us the latter with the swordsage class, at least.)

The Swordsage was awesome. So versatile. He could be that philosopher-swordsman and actually be an effective character, and a Setting Sun-focused one was a far better "mystical martial artist" character in every way than the 3.5 Monk.

And not only that, but "Swordsage" is even a better name for a class than "Monk." "Swordsage" doesn't carry all the baggage that "Monk" carries.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I really want to see a proper Monk class myself. Not a martial artist monk, just a good old-fashioned ascetic priest who has devoted himself to his faith...

Keep in mind, even in anime 95% or more of all people called monks are just that: people who go around as part of formal orders of monks, using prayers and sacred talismans to banish evil spirits, while on an implied path towards enlightenment/devotion to the divine through self-discipline. They will never use fancy martial arts moves. If you ask me, it is something that deserves its own class (separate from but similar to the Cleric, more focused on internal spiritual development and less on healing, or a divine Controller).

Bare-knuckled fighting should be an assumed part of all fighting classes, especially the Fighter.

Mystical, lightly armored warriors with agile skill should have a dedicated swordsage-like class.

Edit: Overall, I think the important thing is that the guy in the second image is very similar to the guy in the first image, other than the fact that he is holding a sword. If D&D assumes that the first guy is a monk, and the second guy is a multiclass monk/swordsage, then it would be a lot better.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I like the concept of a martial arts class, and I wouldn't mind it to have some mystical flavor, but I somehow don't think this flavor should automatically imply "Monk".

 

[Klaus]

Cloistered Cleric

Monk