Level Up (A5E) Should AD&D5E remove simple/martial weapon category as exotic weapons were removed from 5E?

[tetrasodium]

I agree.
I would go with 4-5 weapon proficiencies.

Basic
Simple
Martial
Exotic
Advanced

What would the difference between exotic & advanced be? or martial & advanced?

I'd add to that an "Arcane" category or subcategory though. Every caster needs a focus item to cast spells, but a mere "focus item" should be on par with "fist" & "improvised weapons". Rather than the multiclass gish friendly cantrips give full casters focus items that allow certain cantrips to be cast & a caster version of extra attack for relevant casters. Instead of the awkward vsm thing & always eventually abused class based loopholes allow the focus item to define more about what types of spells from your spell list they can cast & under what conditions since you can only cast a spell with one focus. That would also put casters firmly back onto the loot treadmill/treasure hauls rather than watching quietly while the rest of the party discusses their new shiny toys.

 

[Minigiant]

• Basic - d4 sword
• Simple - d6 sword
• Martial - d8 sword
• Exotic - d10 sword
• Advanced - d12 sword

It's isn't all about increasing damage dice. It's about ease of use and available properties.

Basic weapons don't even get a sword. It's only bladed weapon is a dagger and that's more of a pokey knife.
Want a real dagger and you need one from the martial or exotic group like a kris, kukri, or dirk.

 

[Cadence]

That's a 5eism, traditionally wizards did not even have simple weapons. Classes that had simple but not martial weapons were bard cleric rogue & sorcerer. It used to look like this for wizards

Right. Traditionally D&D wizards have had a few weapons like the 3.5(?) page you show. 2e had dagger, staff, dart, knive, and sling, 1e is just dagger, dart, staff (proficient in one of at first level). So they've always had some weapon proficiency.

 

[Minigiant]

What would the difference between exotic & advanced be? or martial & advanced?

Exotic means weapons that do not match the norm and require additional training. But they match up with martial. Exotic mean Exotic not better. There martial weapons that a fighter would not necessarily be able to pick up and know how to use. Double weapons, racial weapons, regional weapons, archaic weapons.

Advanced is the "better than martial". These are the masterworks, advanced tech, and the "clockwork" weapons.

 

[Horwath]

I think there's kind of two ways we can go about changing this. Either accept that 5e has made weapon choice basically irrelevant, and remove the rest of the miniscule distinctions by eliminating the simple/martial distinction. We could then basically just have a 13th age system where there are 6 kinds of weapons, d4, d6, d8 one handed-weapons, and d6, d8, d10 two handed weapons. (Adjust the numbers as needed for 5e).

Or we could go in the other direction and create a tag system to make weapons an interesting part of your character. Then we could have weapons with real distinctions between them, and keep the simple/martial distinction as a way of limiting certain tags from classes you don't want having access to more powerful melee weapons.

In between these are keeping it as is (a pretend choice you make during chargen), or maybe adding strength or dex requirements for certain weapons.

Personally I like the idea of making weapons matter again by creating a tag system, both because it provides an actual weapon balancing mechanic and can help to balance ranged vs melee as discussed in another thread.
I know tag systems are anathema to some people, but honestly I think that's silly. DnD's weapon lists have always had weird idiosyncrasies that didn't do them any favors, and we should try to fix that.

but with properties just from 5E you can get lot's of different weapons

1Handed

1d10, versatile d12.
1d8, finesse.
1d8, versatile d10, reach.
1d8, light.
1d8, thrown.
1d6, light, finesse.
1d6, light, thrown.
1d6, light, reach.
1d6, finesse, reach.
1d6, finesse, thrown.
1d4, light, finesse, thrown
1d4, light, finesse, reach

2Handed

2d8, 2Handed, heavy.
2d6, 2Handed.
2d6, 2Handed, heavy, reach.
1d12, 2Handed, reach.
1d12, 2Handed, finesse.
1d10, 2Handed, reach, finesse.

and you can add 2× more for each of blunt/slash/pierce damage.

18 different types of weapons with 3 damage types, it is 54 weapons. That should be enough weapons.

 

[akr71]

I agree.
I would go with 4-5 weapon proficiencies.

• Basic
• Simple
• Martial
• Exotic
• Advanced

Wizards don't even get simple weapons. They just get clubs, staves, daggers, darts,and the basic crossbow. Commoner weapons.

Sure, that works. I don't know what the difference between exotic & advanced is though. I was thinking more like

• basic (slings, daggers, darts, clubs)
• simple (d4 + some two handed weapons like great club)
• militia (d6 weapons + light crossbow & some two handed pole arms)
• martial (d8 & versatile weapons)
• advanced & exotic

Maybe put proficiency with the big two handers as a fighting style or feat that martial classes have easy access too

 

[Phoebasss]

but with properties just from 5E you can get lot's of different weapons

1Handed

1d10, versatile d12.
1d8, finesse.
1d8, versatile d10, reach.
1d8, light.
1d8, thrown.
1d6, light, finesse.
1d6, light, thrown.
1d6, light, reach.
1d6, finesse, reach.
1d6, finesse, thrown.
1d4, light, finesse, thrown
1d4, light, finesse, reach

2Handed

2d8, 2Handed, heavy.
2d6, 2Handed.
2d6, 2Handed, heavy, reach.
1d12, 2Handed, reach.
1d12, 2Handed, finesse.
1d10, 2Handed, reach, finesse.

and you can add 2× more for each of blunt/slash/pierce damage.

18 different types of weapons with 3 damage types, it is 54 weapons. That should be enough weapons.

I agree, but this system needs to be codified. And I think a tag system codifies this in a way that doesn't involve listing 54 weapons in a table. 5e has generally done a trash job with this. Honestly what you have above is pretty close to what I'd like to see as the effective result of codifying the tag system. But I'd also like to see a few other tags make their way in here. Some sort of "better criticals" tag would be nice. Mainly because I want the greataxe to have a purpose that isn't strictly beneficial for a Fighter 3/Barbarian 9 Half Orc.

Mainly, I want A5e to put what you have above into a process for creating weapons.

 

[Minigiant]

Sure, that works. I don't know what the difference between exotic & advanced is though. I was thinking more like

Exotic is nunchaku and double axes. Weapons a warrior class wouldn't get training in from their master due to regional constraints.
Advanced is repeating heavy crossbow and whip. Weapons a warrior class wouldn't get training in from their master due to practical or technological limitations.

So a ranger would get one Exotic weapon proficiency from each Favored Terrain.

A fighter gets a bonus advanced weapon prof equal to his INT modifier

• basic (slings, daggers, darts, clubs)
• simple (d4 + some two handed weapons like great club)
• militia (d6 weapons + light crossbow & some two handed pole arms)
• martial (d8 & versatile weapons)
• advanced & exotic

Maybe put proficiency with the big two handers as a fighting style or feat that martial classes have easy access too

I see simple as the militia weapons. Weapons that take some training to learn but not that much.

 

[Horwath]

Exotic is nunchaku and double axes. Weapons a warrior class wouldn't get training in from their master due to regional constraints.
Advanced is repeating heavy crossbow and whip. Weapons a warrior class wouldn't get training in from their master due to practical or technological limitations.

So a ranger would get one Exotic weapon proficiency from each Favored Terrain.

A fighter gets a bonus advanced weapon prof equal to his INT modifier


I see simple as the militia weapons. Weapons that take some training to learn but not that much.

but what is the point? Just complicating stuff.

Repeating crossbow is easier to use than a normal one.


Just because you never seen certain type of sword does not mean that you don't know how to use it.

at the end of a day, it's a steel bar that is sharpened and it is used to kill people.

bigger just means that you have more reach and can cut with more force.

 

[ThatGuySteve]

but what is the point? Just complicating stuff.

Repeating crossbow is easier to use than a normal one.


Just because you never seen certain type of sword does not mean that you don't know how to use it.

at the end of a day, it's a steel bar that is sharpened and it is used to kill people.

bigger just means that you have more reach and can cut with more force.

There is a whole world of difference between weapons, even ones that look similar. Different grips, stances, ways of striking. The difference between a slashing blade and piercing, or 1 handed vs 2 handed. Training definitely required.

Sure, you could pick it up and swing it, but that's not the same as being proficient.