Should an exalted sorcerer be allowed to heal?

[Saeviomagy]

Just a point for all the "oh, no, you're encroaching on the cleric's speciality!"

Why do you think people don't like playing clerics? Healing people is boring. Being the party healer is a thankless job. Spending all your spells on adding hitpoints back to the group after every fight instead of using them in interesting ways sucks.


Letting the wizard or sorceror (or everyone!) do that does not make the role of cleric less fun. It means he can finally do something other than heal.

The only real thing to watch out for is that lessening the healing burden upon the cleric doesn't give the cleric too much power.

 

[Herobizkit]

FYI, I recall reading an article in a Dragon magazine that accounted for the seven deadly sins and how to make priests using these new "domains".

Check out Dragon Issue #323 if you're interested.

 

[SgtGrimm]

Well folks,
This has been an interesting thread, but after today it's not quite applicable to the party in question.

We had a spectacular TPK - the "completely end the campaign and start a new one on the other side of the world" type.

Please continue the discussion - it's just as likely to be relevant to our new party.

 

[Herobizkit]

to ForceUser

Just a question about your Clerics, ForceUser.

This may veer into a dangerous territory, but I'd like to know... if your campaign world is monotheistic, how did it become so, or was it always so?

I ask because I both support and denounce your decision to use Grace for your Clerics.

I support it because, as others have stated, it adds flavour to an otherwise normally bland character class. Forcing a restriction on acceptance into your campaign's monotheistic religion, you essentially cut out 90-95% of the nonsense of trying to maintain a cadre of religions scattered about your campaign world, which MUST save on bookkeeping.

I denounce it because, well, it IS restrictive. I've never been a supporter of enforced restrictions on principle, and to make a player choose only one type of priest or none at all seems pretty harsh. If a player does not wish to RP acc'd to your campaign's Cleric credo, they cannot play a Cleric, which in turn cripples their party abilities. No healer = shorter forays into the unknown, longer waiting periods between recuperation, massive amounts of gold to dump on the local Church for the privelege of being treated (and thus draining their coffers which were expected to go into magic items/equipment, potentially crippling their party growth), and that's just a start. *G*

If yow want your Clerics to act like Paladins, why not just make Clerics = Paladins and make the regular "pagan" Clerics as per RAW?

That aside, I wonder what or who your campaign's Clerics fight against. "Evil" seems too general a foe for such a group of Clerics. Are there any repercussions for being a failed priest (ie. someone Fallen from Grace, and could you PLAY such a character?), or pretending to be a priest, or following a non-campaign Church sponsored religion (if there are any?)

I guess I'm just rambling now, but in short, I'd like to know more about your take on the big JC in a D&D setting. Feel free to e-mail, PM, or post here if you'd like to share your vision.

 

[Li Shenron]

Would it break the game if I placed clerical healing spells on an exalted sorcerer's list of spells from which to choose? The adventuring group of which the exalted sorcerer is a part suffers from a complete lack of divine magic...

...

If I allowed such, however, would that be unfair to a guy in one of my other groups who's running a cleric/wizard/mystic theurge? I ask because consistency of rulings across groups is important to me.

EDIT: Continuing my train of thought...consistency of rulings is important to me because if I let the exalted sorcerer's player do it, I should allow the mytic theurge's player to do it.

Two different campaigns = two different universes altogether

Your first group will only benefit from someone who can heal the wounded. I'm not sure that the sorcerer player will see this as an actual advantage, since he has one more duty which will mean that (1) he will be asked to learn a few healing spells in place of other spells he would like and (2) he will be asked to use slots for healing when he'd prefer nuking.

Really, you should take it easy and don't worry about consistency Just because you're doing a favour to the first group, it doesn't mean the second group has anything to do with this.

And who says that the mystic theurge should be the only way to get healing + arcane magic, or even just the main way?

Would allowing sorcerers to heal make them overpowered?

That's another question... I don't have a general answer, but given the sorcerer's very limited number of spells known, I doubt they will be overpowered by a few healing spells. The real risk in a general change is that of stepping on the cleric's role, but this is exactly what you would like to do in your first group.

 

[cwhs01]

Would it break the game if I placed clerical healing spells on an exalted sorcerer's list of spells from which to choose?

I played in a campaign where my DM allowed the party sorc to take CLW as a 2.lvl spell. This didn't break anything gamewise AFAIC. I think it was partly explained because the sorc was gradually being converted into the party clerics religion, becoming at least as zealous and fanatically devoted as him. well sort of... The sorc was a cg (cn?) halforc, the cleric a cn (ne?) halfelf follower of a deathgod. In an otherwise G aligned party...

It is a matter of prefernece wether one wishes to stick to RAW as a matter of principle (which is okay) or adopt a few houserules because of flavour. Allowing sorcerors to gain cure spells (because of their limited spellselection, this will mean one less blast spell instead) is fine afaic.

But i don't think i would alow wizards access to cure spells.

 

[ForceUser]

Just a question about your Clerics, ForceUser.

This may veer into a dangerous territory, but I'd like to know... if your campaign world is monotheistic, how did it become so, or was it always so?

I ask because I both support and denounce your decision to use Grace for your Clerics.

I support it because, as others have stated, it adds flavour to an otherwise normally bland character class. Forcing a restriction on acceptance into your campaign's monotheistic religion, you essentially cut out 90-95% of the nonsense of trying to maintain a cadre of religions scattered about your campaign world, which MUST save on bookkeeping.

I denounce it because, well, it IS restrictive. I've never been a supporter of enforced restrictions on principle, and to make a player choose only one type of priest or none at all seems pretty harsh. If a player does not wish to RP acc'd to your campaign's Cleric credo, they cannot play a Cleric, which in turn cripples their party abilities. No healer = shorter forays into the unknown, longer waiting periods between recuperation, massive amounts of gold to dump on the local Church for the privelege of being treated (and thus draining their coffers which were expected to go into magic items/equipment, potentially crippling their party growth), and that's just a start. *G*

If yow want your Clerics to act like Paladins, why not just make Clerics = Paladins and make the regular "pagan" Clerics as per RAW?

That aside, I wonder what or who your campaign's Clerics fight against. "Evil" seems too general a foe for such a group of Clerics. Are there any repercussions for being a failed priest (ie. someone Fallen from Grace, and could you PLAY such a character?), or pretending to be a priest, or following a non-campaign Church sponsored religion (if there are any?)

I guess I'm just rambling now, but in short, I'd like to know more about your take on the big JC in a D&D setting. Feel free to e-mail, PM, or post here if you'd like to share your vision.

Thanks for the interest.

The main human religion in the region in which the campaign took place is not monotheistic nor polytheistic--there is a pantheon of gods, but they are worshipped together in a single faith. (In fact, I use a modified version of nine of the D&D gods--see attached). There is a term for unified worship of multiple gods, and I wish I could remember it! In any event, my inspiration for the faith comes from medieval Catholicism and Sepulchrave II's Church of Oronthon. The Celestine Church is only one religion upon the continent, though it is clearly the dominant one. Other religions include the pagan Old Faith to which druids and a few spirit shaman adhere; the Church of the Silver Flame, ripped right out of Eberron; the hybrid religion of macymba practiced by the Eloi people, whose houngan priests are based upon the Oriental Adventures shaman; and the racial faiths of player character gnomes (Garl Glittergold) and goblins (Maglubiyet), both of whose priests are clerics and variants thereof.

Before I explain further, you should know that I do not use alignments. Instead, I use a system of Miens, wherein the vast majority of mortal creatures, good or bad, nice or nasty, are considered Neutral with regard to the forces of the universe. They act according to how they were socialized within their various cultures, and not according to the artificial dictates of alignment. This means that there are lots of gray areas, just like in real life. Now, beyond this, any creature with a connection to greater powers will have a Mien associated with that power, be it Grace, Taint, Chaos, or Order. Paladins, for instance, are infused with the powers of Grace and Order. Most divine spellcasters must adhere to only one Mien, but no character can cast divine spells without being associated with a Mien. As such, they are held to a higher standard than your normal, Neutral mortal creatures, whose actions are predicated only upon what society has told them is good or bad behavior. Divine spellcasters, however, must adhere to standards approaching those of fiends, slaadi, inevitables, and celestials. They are proxies of the gods on earth.

Within the Celestine and Silver Flame traditions, those priests who have gained Grace are called the Blesséd. They are uniformly aligned with Grace.

Priests of Maglubiyet are aligned with Chaos or Taint.

Priests of Garl Glittergold are aligned with Order or Grace.

Druids and shaman of the old faith are infused with the Grace of the god and the goddess.

The Houngans of the Eloi are often infused with Taint, as are priests of the Dark Six as well as various evil cults.

And so on. All divine spellcasters, be they exalted or corrupted, are held to a higher standard than Joe Blow fighter and Deena the Rogue. If a player sees this as restrictive, then he's probably not suited to role-playing a divine spellcaster anyway, and thus I'd be much happier if he played a Neutral class such as a wizard or fighter and dealt with their concerns than with the problems of divinity and morality that constantly test those who walk a higher path. If the party has no healer as a result, then perhaps someone will play an artificer or bard, take the Craft Wand feat, and encourage his buddies to max ranks in Use Magic Device. Or maybe, just maybe, someone will choose to try that exalted path, and just maybe, the role-playing will be enriched because of it. But I'm showing my bias--I love heroes like Sepulchrave's Eadric, Nwm, and Tahl the Incorruptable, so that's what's I encourage.

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

Some interesting stuff there ForecUser.

On your original point, I personally see no problem with allowing a sorceror access to healing spells - after all a precedent for arcane healing exists with the bard.

As a possible alternative, if the sorceror doesn't want to use up his already limited spell choice on healing spells, would it disrupt the set-up of your world too much to allow some sort of herbal/alcemical mixes that allow easy stabilisation and perhaps accelerate natural healing, but are cheaper/easier to come by than standard potions?

 

[Drowbane]

Quoted for Truth

Well folks,
This has been an interesting thread, but after today it's not quite applicable to the party in question.

We had a spectacular TPK - the "completely end the campaign and start a new one on the other side of the world" type.

Please continue the discussion - it's just as likely to be relevant to our new party.

Um... my bad? I share blame with my Warforged companion. Its not his fault he has 6wisdom.... and that truely was a spectacular explosion... went out with a bang and all that.

As an aside, this new party's setting seems really really cool. Its based on fantasy East Indian flavor

All Hail Kali!!

*edit*
Oh, and in case you're wondering... having a healing focused cleric would not have helped us overly much... it was a rather large boom.

 

[ForceUser]

As a possible alternative, if the sorceror doesn't want to use up his already limited spell choice on healing spells, would it disrupt the set-up of your world too much to allow some sort of herbal/alcemical mixes that allow easy stabilisation and perhaps accelerate natural healing, but are cheaper/easier to come by than standard potions?

Interesting idea! I may look into that.

I appreciate all the comments and the discussion.