D&D 5E Should D&D 5e have Epic Levels?

[dave2008]

Hey if that’s how you like to play, more power to you. I would never be able to stick to one campaign that long.

We are moving a little faster than @Matrix Sorcica , we hit level 15 at almost 6 years into the campaign (started at lvl 1). I figured recently that has taken us about 400 hrs of game play I think.

 

[The Big BZ]

we are still only lvl 15 after playing for 6 years

This is quite slow in comparison to my group, would you mind describing a typical session of yours? I'm intrigued by the difference in play style

 

[dave2008]

Ninjaed. Interesting in how slow rate of play is achieved mechanically.

Easy, don't use XP. Were at level 15 after 5+ years of play (paused now because of covid-19). We also require downtime for true level up, so you can't level up completely mid dungeon.

 

[dave2008]

This is quite slow in comparison to my group, would you mind describing a typical session of yours? I'm intrigued by the difference in play style

Sure:

• We play 4-6 hrs about 3 times every 2 months
• We have 1-6/7 encounters pure session and average about 2.5. Combats last from 10-15 min for simple fights and 45 - 90 min for big / important battles. Rest of the time is exploration, investigation, and social interaction.
• We don't use XP
• We require downtime for full level up. You can't generally level up in the middle of a dungeon.
• It is a low magic setting, so finding magic items is a big deal. I think that helps off set the fact we don't level up much.

 

[Mercurius]

I think there is some demand for epic levels. But I think it should be put out in combination with a deities, demigods and epic heroes book.

This is my thought as well, and think it could be one (big) book: the first half being epic/immortal play, the second half being deities and epic creatures.

 

[cbwjm]

I'm undecided. On one hand, I like the thought of reaching level 30 but I also think that the mechanics break down a little when levelling up to that point though this might not be an issue with the 5e system. I think what I might actually prefer though is what I call sideways advancement, the epic boons that the DMG suggests is a good example of this. Rather than more levels you gain various epic bonuses to add on to your PC.

I guess part of why I'd rather have sideways rather than upwards advancement is due to my time playing WoW, every new expansion had new levels to add which ended up killing a lot of the world as lower levels were cleared out as everyone was advancing higher level characters to even higher. Had they brought out an expansion that was still set for the same level as the current characters while providing a different avenue of advancement (as in new areas to explore for level 40 to 60) then I think I may have kept my interest in the game.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Do you mind me asking if you are milestone leveling or straight XP?

Straight xp

Takes about 15 combats per lvl from 4th to 9th so far, 2-3 combats per session, add in some quest xp here and there. Five PCs.

Edit: that's about 15 monsters of lvl equivalent CR, I mean.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Personally, I think it would have made the most sense to focus the design around the typical play experience, which would mean 10 levels. But, we got 20 levels because 5e was a hardcore appeal to traditionalism (which I agree with you in disliking, but it is what it is.)

I’m also not sure how a 10-level campaign is short. Even at one session a week and leveling up every other session on average (both very generous assumptions in my opinion), that’s 5 months. Factor in any sessions that have to get cancelled and you’re looking at half a year, or a whole year if you play every other week.

A single year campaign is short, for my group.

technically that is what supernatural gifts (blessings and charms) are for. The are like per-lvl 20 mini-epic boons.

Yep, and that’s what I’d model a more robust system after.

 

[Psikerlord#]

Definitely not. In fact, dnd should only have 10 levels. That's where it works best and is most fun.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

On principle I dislike level limits. On the other hand, the nature of skill development is that the more advanced one becomes, the more advancement slows. There's also the limiting factor of time and aging. So a "realistic" D&D would actually involve less power increases the higher level one becomes - or at least far slower advancement to new advancements.

That said, D&D is a game and doesn't need to model itself after the real world (ahem). I personally see no reason why a new or alternate epic capstone system wouldn't be a good thing, and I would be very interested in seeing it developed. Furthermore, I think it should include something new, that isn't just "more of the same, but more" -- meaning, make it truly gonzo. Which brings me to the idea of immortal play.

Oh yes. I don't want Epic play but I'd love to get a new Immortals Set. This is called "D&D", after all, and should embrace its full BECMI silliness.