me too at 14 about 10 years later... the closest I have liked was when I combined 3.5 (well star wars D20) wounds and vitality with a penalty for going into vitality with 4e healing surges and even then I was like "I give up for it to work it is too complex"
D&D 5E Should healing magic be based on HD or not?
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Definitely prefer most healing to require the target to expend a hit die. I don’t really care if the amount healed is based on the hit die size or not, the point is to put a cap on the amount of healing each creature can receive per day, making HP an encounter resource while HD remain an adventuring day resource. I’d be fine with a few powerful healing spells skipping the hit die expenditure requirement, but they should be rare and highly valued.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
My problem is, I 100% believe that healing should work in this general way...
...but I'm also aware that it is emphatically NOT how 5e was designed, all the way down to its bones, and if you tried to force 5e to work this way without adjusting numerous other factors, it would work rather poorly.
See, this whole thing is closely analogous to how 4e healing worked. In 4e, you have a number of Healing Surges, which represent (more or less) the total amount of gumption, vigor, tenacity, whatever you want to call it, that you can realistically draw on for the day. Every surge restores 25% (rounded down) of your total HP; characters normally can only spend 1 surge per encounter, using the Second Wind action, but Leaders, healing potions, and other tools or features could allow further expenditures. Fragile classes that didn't specialize in taking hits (e.g. "pure spellcaster" types like Wizards or "fragile speedster" types like Rogues) got few base surges, while classes that did specialize in being able to take the brunt of attacks (especially classes with strong physical defenses, like Fighter and Paladin) got a lot of base surges. You also got bonus surges equal to your Con modifier, and there were a few ways to get extra surges via feats and magic items that could boost the healing granted by your surges. (Dragonborn, for instance, had a feature that added their Con modifier to their surge value; for Con-specialized Dragonborn, this was quite a valuable benefit.)
But in order to work like the above, you have to design healing to work this way from the ground up. Healing surges put a very firm cap on daily HP restoration. If Healing Surges--or Hit Dice or whatever you want to call this resource--aren't actually baked in at the ground level and tested to understand the typical spread of results at the table, you're very likely to run into one of two degenerate situations instead. Either (a) surges/HD/whatever are unnecessary and simply become an exploitable bonus on top of other healing, or (b) they aren't enough to actually keep most parties going long enough to matter, turning the game into an exercise in frustration where you're constantly limited by an arbitrary-feeling cap.
4e did the testing necessary to make this system work. I don't really expect current-WotC stuff to be tested that well, and absolutely don't expect homebrew stuff to be tested anywhere near well enough to work. 3PP content like Level Up....might or might not, depends on a lot of factors.
...but I'm also aware that it is emphatically NOT how 5e was designed, all the way down to its bones, and if you tried to force 5e to work this way without adjusting numerous other factors, it would work rather poorly.
See, this whole thing is closely analogous to how 4e healing worked. In 4e, you have a number of Healing Surges, which represent (more or less) the total amount of gumption, vigor, tenacity, whatever you want to call it, that you can realistically draw on for the day. Every surge restores 25% (rounded down) of your total HP; characters normally can only spend 1 surge per encounter, using the Second Wind action, but Leaders, healing potions, and other tools or features could allow further expenditures. Fragile classes that didn't specialize in taking hits (e.g. "pure spellcaster" types like Wizards or "fragile speedster" types like Rogues) got few base surges, while classes that did specialize in being able to take the brunt of attacks (especially classes with strong physical defenses, like Fighter and Paladin) got a lot of base surges. You also got bonus surges equal to your Con modifier, and there were a few ways to get extra surges via feats and magic items that could boost the healing granted by your surges. (Dragonborn, for instance, had a feature that added their Con modifier to their surge value; for Con-specialized Dragonborn, this was quite a valuable benefit.)
But in order to work like the above, you have to design healing to work this way from the ground up. Healing surges put a very firm cap on daily HP restoration. If Healing Surges--or Hit Dice or whatever you want to call this resource--aren't actually baked in at the ground level and tested to understand the typical spread of results at the table, you're very likely to run into one of two degenerate situations instead. Either (a) surges/HD/whatever are unnecessary and simply become an exploitable bonus on top of other healing, or (b) they aren't enough to actually keep most parties going long enough to matter, turning the game into an exercise in frustration where you're constantly limited by an arbitrary-feeling cap.
4e did the testing necessary to make this system work. I don't really expect current-WotC stuff to be tested that well, and absolutely don't expect homebrew stuff to be tested anywhere near well enough to work. 3PP content like Level Up....might or might not, depends on a lot of factors.
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Very good point. I had been thinking about how in 4e, you had a set number of healing surges pretty much throughout the game unless your Con mod increased; otherwise the number you had stayed the same, but the amount they healed increased as you leveled. 5e is the opposite. Hit Dice always heal the same amount (unless your Con mod increases) and you gain more of them as you level. Requiring HD expenditure to heal could still work in that system (higher level healing allows you to spend more hit dice), but it would definitely require a lot of testing to get it right. It isn’t something you can just easily implement with a simple house rule, or a lot of us would have done it already.
dave2008
Legend
This is basically what I would want too. We (my group) already allow PCs to charge / recharge powers by spending HD, I would like to extend that to healing too. It is not really needed in our group (we don't have any healing spells), but it makes sense to me.
Last edited:
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Awesome discussions people! 
Personally, I would not want it to be too easy, so perhaps something like:
When you complete a short rest, you can spend hit dice to remove a level of exhaustion. You must spend a number of hit dice equal to your total levels of exhaustion to remove one level of exhaustion. For example, if you have 4 levels of exhaustion, you can spend 4 hit dice to reduce it to 3 levels of exhaustion. You cannot remove more than one level of exhaustion after a short rest in this fashion.
Probably needs to be re-worded, but that's my initial idea.
Oh, I like this idea! I think I will add it to the maybe list for our 5E mod.
Personally, I would not want it to be too easy, so perhaps something like:
When you complete a short rest, you can spend hit dice to remove a level of exhaustion. You must spend a number of hit dice equal to your total levels of exhaustion to remove one level of exhaustion. For example, if you have 4 levels of exhaustion, you can spend 4 hit dice to reduce it to 3 levels of exhaustion. You cannot remove more than one level of exhaustion after a short rest in this fashion.
Probably needs to be re-worded, but that's my initial idea.
cbwjm
Seb-wejem
I think spells like cure wounds and healing word should have a sentence which reads something like "the target may also spend a number of hit dice equal to the level of the spell slot used and heal that amount". That way the spell provides healing but also allows the drawing upon of internal reserves.
Stoutstien
lunk
I'm working on a mixed approach to revamp healing.
I wouldn't necessarily it directly to the hit die but I would allow certain classes to spend their owns HD when a healing effect is applied to enhance it.
I wouldn't necessarily it directly to the hit die but I would allow certain classes to spend their owns HD when a healing effect is applied to enhance it.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Also keep in mind that healing sucking is part of the real reason for that Whack a Mole healing people are so scared of.
BrokenTwin
Biological Disaster
One thing I think would be useful to keep in mind is that magical healing using healing surges doesn't necessarily mean that magic is useless when you're out of surges, just that it's significantly less effective. If the basic healing spell is Healing Surge + Casting Stat, then you'd still be healing the casting stat value. Less effective, but still useful for clutch save-from-dying moments.
But ultimately, I don't think it would be worth revamping everything that would need to be changed to make Hit Dice an actually integrated part of the system. It would be closer to a 6E than a 5.5E. Which, if your goal is to make another heartbreaker, go for it. Hopefully WotC will look back at 4E when they're designing the next edition and take the best parts of the Healing Surge mechanics into their design.
But ultimately, I don't think it would be worth revamping everything that would need to be changed to make Hit Dice an actually integrated part of the system. It would be closer to a 6E than a 5.5E. Which, if your goal is to make another heartbreaker, go for it. Hopefully WotC will look back at 4E when they're designing the next edition and take the best parts of the Healing Surge mechanics into their design.
Similar Threads
- Poll
