D&D 5E Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?

[doctorbadwolf]

Literally "mundane" would be even more restrictive than "realistic," and even more inappropriate to a fantasy setting.

So "not magical" is a more reasonable way to take it.

Not that "reasonable" is any more appropriate to these discussions than "realistic," either.

Reasonable is always appropriate to the discussion.

And quibbling over the term being used is just a waste of time.

The thread title presents mundane and supernatural as opposites, and the OP makes pretty clear what they mean by the question. We can all just engage on that basis.

 

[ECMO3]

You only looked at half the list.

I looked at the combat functions.

Many of the things you claim as doable aren't as you cannot talk do a Tier 2 or better foe in one blow in 5e.

Absolutely you can as long as they are already at low hit points.

This ties directly to the fiction surrounding hit points.

You need to change that mechanic as the measurement of life if you want to change that.

And it definitely doesn't cover most fantastical martial non-supernatural actions.

It covers almost all of them. There is very little a martial can't already do in 5E. I don't think the main complaint is really that they can't do these things. I think the complaints fall into two catagories:

1. They are available but not powerful enough, or not as powerful as other options.

or

2. They require an element of imagination and creativity that players (including DMs) are not willing to excercise.

 

[Minigiant]

Absolutely you can as long as they are already at low hit points.

This ties directly to the fiction surrounding hit points.

You need to change that mechanic as the measurement of life if you want to change that

Or you make them deal more damage or trigger on lower HP

"At level 15, If you hit a creature with 50 or fewer HP and the creature is not immune to your attacks damage types, it drops to 0 HP" .

It covers almost all of them. There is very little a martial can't already do in 5E. I don't think the main complaint is really that they can't do these things. I think the complaints fall into two catagories:

1. They are available but not powerful enough, or not as powerful as other options.

or

2. They require an element of imagination and creativity that players (including DMs) are not willing to excercise.

That sounds like a wishy washy way to say something is covered when it isn't.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

"At level 15, If you hit a creature with 50 or fewer HP and the creature is not immune to your attacks damage types, it drops to 0 HP" .

My assassin class does this but much lower numbers. It started at hp equal to your assassin level, and I’m considering making it twice your assassin level. 50 seems a bit much.

 

[ECMO3]

"At level 15, If you hit a creature with 50 or fewer HP and the creature is not immune to your attacks damage types, it drops to 0 HP" .

I think that number should be more like 5hp

That sounds like a wishy washy way to say something is covered when it isn't.

No it is covered and available if you want to use it.

What is wishy washy is saying you want something in the game, then complaining about it becauase it is not powerful enough. Either you want to be able to pistol whip someone or not.

 

[Minigiant]

think that number should be more like 5hp

50 is better at level 50.

No it is covered and available if you want to use it.

What is wishy washy is saying you want something in the game, then complaining about it becauase it is not powerful enough. Either you want to be able to pistol whip someone or not.

If it's not powerful enough, the fantasy is not met.
If the fantasy isn't met, it is not covered.

That's against why all the new martial subclasses are overtly magical and why the barbarian is being made overtly supernatural...

Because people won't allow mundane to be as effective as at least real life.

Then the same people openly lament "Why is everything so magical? I can't play a hero without magic!"

 

[ECMO3]

50 is better at level 50.

With bounded accuracy the number should never be that high.

If it's not powerful enough, the fantasy is not met.

Sure it is, the Monster just manages to dodge or it only nicks him or whatever. You need to where him down first.

 

[Minigiant]

With bounded accuracy the number should never be that high.

Its bounded accuracy not bounded damage.

A core element of 5e is that the accuracy stays the same but the damage balloons.

The issue is that the damage only increases with focused feats and magic items. If you don't have those damage increases or extra attacks, you don't keep up.

But for some attack, there are no feats or magic items.

Even WOTC agrees. Jeremy Crawford said that GWM, SS, PAM, and CE felt like must-have feats. So in 2024 they were adjusted. Tavern brawler, Savage Attack, and Charger are being adjusted. And unarmed Strikes are getting magic items. And there will be a brawler subclass.

If they are adding them in 2024, that means they were missing in 2014.

 

[Remathilis]

Not my issue. Niche doesn't mean bad.

Niche means unpopular. But I keep forgetting it's all about you.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

A lot of this discussion is about people who should be playing 4e or Rolemaster complaining that 5e isn't those games.

I understand that if you're mostly happy with 5e but feel that it could use some small tweaks, then it might make sense contemplating it. But to me it seems that there are a lot of people who simply disagree with the core concepts of the game, so at that point it would be just wisest to let it go and find a game that better suits your tastes.