D&D 5E Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?

[Remathilis]

But the problem is that without any play-affectibg implementation, the DM is within their writes to describe nothing at all, especially since it's impossible for any attack to cause an injury beyond unconscious or dead (or more likely nothing at all).

That is precisely the strength of Hit Points and its weakness. Most games which have some specific wound mechanics end up in death-spirals: you take wounds that reduce your fighting capacity which in turn makes your far more likely to sustain additional wounds while less likely to inflict your own wounds. In some games, that is a perfectly valid style of play. Those games tend to not be combat-focused. But D&D is absolutely a dungeon-delver and it is built on the principle that you will fight more often than you don't, and for that the simplicity of HP and "the only hp that matters is your last" makes the game faster and easier.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But not because "it's a game", period. Which is what you said.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That is precisely the strength of Hit Points and its weakness. Most games which have some specific wound mechanics end up in death-spirals: you take wounds that reduce your fighting capacity which in turn makes your far more likely to sustain additional wounds while less likely to inflict your own wounds. In some games, that is a perfectly valid style of play. Those games tend to not be combat-focused. But D&D is absolutely a dungeon-delver and it is built on the principle that you will fight more often than you don't, and for that the simplicity of HP and "the only hp that matters is your last" makes the game faster and easier.

Faster and easier is not the pinnacle of game design, and some versions of D&D (classic play where you try to avoid combat for example) can support a less abstract method.

 

[Minigiant]

Forest through the trees.

The point of me bringing up hit points is that you are willing to abstract one thing they like but not another.

We are willing to say that a fighter can get hit by 20 arrows and still live but we argue whether or not a fighter can temporarily confuse another warrior in combat or stab a giant in the foot for a permanent speed loss.

 

[Remathilis]

Faster and easier is not the pinnacle of game design, and some versions of D&D (classic play where you try to avoid combat for example) can support a less abstract method.

and yet it never has...

 

[Micah Sweet]

Forest through the trees.

The point of me bringing up hit points is that you are willing to abstract one thing they like but not another.

We are willing to say that a fighter can get hit by 20 arrows and still live but we argue whether or not a fighter can temporarily confuse another warrior in combat or stab a giant in the foot for a permanent speed loss.

I'm all for making mundane combat more interesting. But using hit points as an excuse for anything else abstracted is weak tea.

 

[Micah Sweet]

and yet it never has...

All that means is that TSR and WotC didn't give it a try. Doesn't mean you couldn't. And injury rules have been littered throughout D&D. They just get stymied by players afraid of anything causing trouble for their precious characters that might last longer than a day.

 

[Oofta]

Forest through the trees.

The point of me bringing up hit points is that you are willing to abstract one thing they like but not another.

We are willing to say that a fighter can get hit by 20 arrows and still live but we argue whether or not a fighter can temporarily confuse another warrior in combat or stab a giant in the foot for a permanent speed loss.

Or ... one thing is a construct to make the game easy to play and the other is about a trope and style of play that a lot of people enjoy.

They're unrelated except that they are part of the same game.

 

[Remathilis]

All that means is that TSR and WotC didn't give it a try. Doesn't mean you couldn't. And injury rules have been littered throughout D&D. They just get stymied by players afraid of anything causing trouble for their precious characters that might last longer than a day.

In 50 years of D&D, no wound or critical hit system has ever managed to take hold because the vast majority of D&D players (and DMs) have not wanted one. If there had ever been more than a niche market for it, it would have taken hold. It hasn't.

 

[Minigiant]

Or ... one thing is a construct to make the game easy to play and the other is about a trope and style of play that a lot of people enjoy.

They're unrelated except that they are part of the same game.

They are related when people are willing to abstract realism to get something they like and the other is a thing people won't abstract because its something someone else likes.