D&D 5E Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?

[Corinnguard]

"Are magic items assumed or optional?"

I think the OP would have asked this question at the beginning of this thread instead of asking everyone as to whether or not martial characters should be mundane or supernatural. If they had, I would probably say optional.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That would need to be, like, a class assumption, not a game assumption. Like, say, at a certain level the caster class gets to take out a whole encounter's worth of enemies in one action, at that same level, the martial class gets a magic item that allows something similar (just with fight choreography and stage blood, rather than chanting, finder-wiggling, and post-production CGI)

The problem with that is what I think of as the 4e Problem. Everyone can do the same level equivalent thing, pretty much, it just looks different. Not what I want.

 

[Micah Sweet]

To be clear, I'm translating for clarity. I imagine the ability would be called a sword technique, maybe a maneuver, but the explanation is quite clearly "doing combat related supernatural thing you learned because that's what sword masters teach at the high levels."

As long as that explanation is explicit and not "assumed" because the game designers imagine everyone thinks the way they do, then that's fine.

 

[Oofta]

I've seen more Wishes than Meteor Swarms, but then groups I run and play in go to high level in most campaigns.

Well when I say "seen wish" I mean as a wish, not to cast an 8th level spell or lower. Or maybe it was just a preference of the people playing the wizards to take a different 9th level spell.

These debates almost make me want to make a mundane PC who doesn't fight that well, but whose exercise regimen allows him to use Magic Mundane Missile and make folks go to Sleep, and at high levels he will be able to exercise his way into granting Wishes. He can do 100 sit-ups, 100 push -ups, 100 quats and then a 10km run. A purely mundane PC, right?

Obviously.

 

[Maxperson]

You would have to ban the caster from using swords OR make the sword of slashball martial class only.

What's the distinction there? It seems to me that banning casters is the same as making it martial only.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You would have to ban the caster from using swords OR make the sword of slashball martial class only.

Or make it a class feature, was my point.

Must be Class X of Level Y to attune.

That'd be a class feature listed in the DMG.


A straight-up class feature would be, just, at a certain level you gain a magic item with a certain magical function. No, other classes can't use it, unless they get the same feature. Simple. Bit abstract, but so's everything in D&D from hp on up.

And, TBH, I was not thinking of fireball at 5th level taking out an encounter full of orcs or something, but sleep at 1st level dropping, like 4 or 5 kobolds (an easy encounter) in one action, a feat a mundane fighter could accomplish at... 11th? 2 extra attacks, action surge, 6 total attacks (you can even afford to miss once or twice). 5th level with a build that finagles a bonus action attack, and a bit of luck.
Well, I mean, apart from the kobolds all needing to be within a 40' sphere centered within 90' of the caster (120' because the caster could move forward 30' and cast), and someone needing to finish them off in the next 10 rounds.

It's easier to push your point of view by using extremes and pretending there isn't a spectrum.

I mean, "mundane" and "supernatural" are extremes, and most fantasy-genre martial concepts probably fall between them?

 

[Minigiant]

I think the OP would have asked this question at the beginning of this thread instead of asking everyone as to whether or not martial characters should be mundane or supernatural. If they had, I would probably say optional.

That's what the question really is though.

The answer to the OP's question hinges on the answer to My question.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I've seen more Wishes than Meteor Swarms, but then groups I run and play in go to high level in most campaigns.

These debates almost make me want to make a mundane PC who doesn't fight that well, but whose exercise regimen allows him to use Magic Mundane Missile and make folks go to Sleep, and at high levels he will be able to exercise his way into granting Wishes. He can do 100 sit-ups, 100 push -ups, 100 quats and then a 10km run. A purely mundane PC, right?

Just like "Come and Get It" was purely mundane because the designers said it was. Right.

 

[Scribe]

That'd be a class feature listed in the DMG.

Doesnt need to be.

A straight-up class feature would be, just, at a certain level you gain a magic item with a certain magical function. No, other classes can't use it, unless they get the same feature. Simple. Bit abstract, but so's everything in D&D from hp on up.

See?

 

[Maxperson]

Im not saying magic items are given

I'm saying the question of
"Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?"

is really

"Are magic items assumed or optional?"

Except that it's not really that. Clearly several folks in this thread(including me) think that it also includes(as the primary thing for me) martials training abilities into the supernatural levels, such as swinging a sword and hitting someone 100 feet away.