D&D 5E (2014) Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?

[Umbran]

I think the OP is asking this because it's quite common for someone to suggest a solution to the balance problem only for someone else to complain about it being supernatural and not mundane, or whatever.

I don't think it's really a desire to label everything from the OP's perspective.

Well, then it is those complaining who are applying that label.

I also don't care who is doing the labelling.

 

[Minigiant]

The issue is that I don't think "20th level mundane" is a coherent concept, at least not unless we are super liberal with the definition of "mundane."

There is a concept of a "20th level mundane".

The issue is, what I've said often, fans of mundanes would not like what that concept looks like.

 

[Asisreo]

It always sound like, to me, people don't care what martials can do.

All they care about is being able to do something that casters cannot, or at a power that casters cannot replicate, which will always be a futile effort so long as "casters" can be pretty much any fantasy type in the game, including warriors or stalkers (Paladins and Rangers are considered casters).

 

[DragonBelow]

Simple enough question. What are your thoughts?

Both, there is room and need for both

 

[DragonBelow]

There is a concept of a "20th level mundane".

The issue is, what I've said often, fans of mundanes would not like what that concept looks like.

A champion or a battlemaster fit the bill, and they look good to me

 

[Minigiant]

A champion or a battlemaster fit the bill, and they look good to me

They are "20th level Characters" by definition but not "20th level Characters" by concept.

Close. Very close. The numbers just needs to be a wee bit bigger at tier 4. That's why this conversation keeps cropping up.

It some thinks action movie heroes and no superpowers comics are the top mark, the mundane characters of D&D allows just miss the mark.

 

[overgeeked]

I think the OP is asking this because it's quite common for someone to suggest a solution to the balance problem only for someone else to complain about it being supernatural and not mundane, or whatever.

I don't think it's really a desire to label everything from the OP's perspective.

It’s mostly that this tangent has taken over another thread and is a not so subtle way to undermine the “+” of the other thread, so here’s a thread for people to talk about it.

 

[Sacrosanct]

There is a concept of a "20th level mundane".

The issue is, what I've said often, fans of mundanes would not like what that concept looks like.

That's because it means different things to different people. For me, a mundane character is one that goes from zero to hero. By higher levels, they can do things approaching captain America.

for others, it's much tighter with no superpowers other than extreme staying power and combat functionality (hp and damage). The high level stuff doesn't mean jumping over mountains, but obtaining castles, and leading armies. Much more AD&D 1e in that respect.

 

[ECMO3]

Simple enough question. What are your thoughts?

If you are talking about a PC it should be whatever the player wants within the bounds of the rules. If you are talking about an NPC, whatever the DM wants with less regard for the rules.

I don't think Mundane and Supernatural are the right anchor points for this discussion though because they are not exclusive. I think mundane vs spectacular would be a better discussion because you can be spectacular without being supernatural. Additionally, while supernatural would never be mundane IRL, supernatural beings are rather common in most fantasy worlds - so in most 5E gams you can be supernatural and mundane.

That said, the rules as currently written allows for very, very supernatural martial characters or very non-supernatural martial characters. They also allow for very spectacular martials or mundane martials (although the latter is mostly a play style decision, not a mechanic).

 

[Minigiant]

That's because it means different things to different people. For me, a mundane character is one that goes from zero to hero. By higher levels, they can do things approaching captain America.

for others, it's much tighter with no superpowers other than extreme staying power and combat functionality (hp and damage). The high level stuff doesn't mean jumping over mountains, but obtaining castles, and leading armies. Much more AD&D 1e in that respect.

That may be true but that's not what I'm talking about.

What I'm saying is that an actual Tier 4 mundane character...

An actual character with no superpowers and no supernatural abilities that is of the quality of what D&D says Tier 4 is...

would be annoying to DM for and annoying to be in a party with.