D&D 5E Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?

[Tony Vargas]

Why does everything need to be labelled? There is no particular need to name the source of power for each thing, since we don't do much of anything with that information.

Well, D&D does use clumsy mechanics like anti-magic zones that need to know whether you magic or not.

But, yes, you could entirely do away with such things, and just give all characters balanced abilities, leaving the specifics of how the player imagines them to the player. Other games that aren't D&D do that successfully.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Conan should be a D&D option. Spartacus style amazing non-magical combatants. Samurai Jack. Fantasy James Bond expert at skills and fighting.

But nor James Bond, Spartacus or even Conan are even close to a 20th level D&D character.

 

[Oofta]

I want the option to play an "action movie" mundane character. Yes, they're doing things that a normal human would only have a one in a million chance of pulling off, but a normal human could do those things if they were extremely skilled and lucky. I mean, I see some of the things that gymnasts are capable of and they seem to be breaking the laws of physics. Yet I doubt Simone Biles is casting a spell before her performances, she's just really, really good at what she does.

People are capable of amazing physical feats I would not think possible. Add in a bit of oversimplification and over-the-top action and you get what we have now as a high level fighter. Want a fighter that obviously uses magic? We have options for that as well.

 

[Tony Vargas]

But nor James Bond, Spartacus or even Conan are even close to a 20th level D&D character.

And Gandalf was famously a 5th-level magic-user.
I can't guess exactly why D&D ran wild with power levels relative to the fiction that inspired it. Like, villains and plot-devices in genre sometimes wield powers equal to a top-level D&D magic user, but even then, not with anything like the same versatility, and, y'know, in service to the author's story...

 

[Sacrosanct]

But nor James Bond, Spartacus or even Conan are even close to a 20th level D&D character.

Conan has beaten gods, demons, and archwizards. What more does it take?

Edit in all fairness, as someone who has recently reread (and currently reading) a lot of Conan, he does has a superpower. Probably the biggest Gary Stu of all...

 

[TwoSix]

1) There should be mundane origin martial characters at low-level.
2) There should be supernatural origin martial characters at low-level.
3) There should be no mundane characters at high level, even if the high-level martial's supernatural ability is simply resilience to an incredible degree. High-level is supernatural by definition.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If we are expecting to level martial characters up to 20... then there will be a transition from one to the other somewhere along the line. The whole reason for having levels is to see a character evolve and get better over time. And in a fantasy world of magic, I see absolutely no reason to keep a mundane martial character mundane over 20 levels. To me that seems pointless.

I equate it to the types of adventures that PCs go on. At a certain point, continuing to do the exact same adventures at level 17 that you were doing at level 3 is pointless and a waste of time. Your levels are epic tier... your adventures and stories should be epic as well. Otherwise it just seems lame. Like back in 4E when someone would write so-called "Epic Level" adventures for characters at like Levels 22-25, but whose plots were merely just protecting a village from some invading monster. Sure the monster was statted to be like a CR 30... but narratively the entire premise and plot was exactly the same things PCs would do back in levels 1-5. So being an Epic level character was meaingless to the adventure, other than changing the monster that showed up. What the heck is the point? Why bother? Just keep playing levels 1-5 if all the stories you want to do are ones that affect characters back in levels 1-5.

Once PCs get up to levels 15, 17, 20 etc... I think they SHOULD start kingdom building and plane-hopping and the like. To give us stories that only make sense when applied to characters that have the experience and reputation and knowledge that comes from being levels 15, 17, 20. And looking at it through that lens, there's no reason in my mind why a Fighter should be stuck as the same mundane swordsman they were 10 levels prior, except that their "numbers are bigger".

Bigger numbers that do nothing other than just being bigger is a waste of time, space, and creativity.

 

[aco175]

I would like a sliding scale using Marvel superheroes please. Somewhere in the Thor/Hulk to Captain America to Hawkeye all the way to Aunt Mae being more a commoner. I kind of think they should be more Hawkeye over Hulk.

Edit in all fairness, as someone who has recently reread (and currently reading) a lot of Conan, he does has a superpower. Probably the biggest Gary Stu of all...

Is it plot armor?

 

[bloodtide]

IPeople are capable of amazing physical feats I would not think possible. Add in a bit of oversimplification and over-the-top action and you get what we have now as a high level fighter. Want a fighter that obviously uses magic? We have options for that as well.

It's also amazing mental feats. When a person is in a tight spot....your mind can slow down your perception of time....somehow. But this is very real.

And there are people that can block a bullet shot at them out of the air with a sword. Somehow they can detect the bullet, see the bullet, slow down time.....and move fast enough to block.

And that is only a little less amazing that there are people like shooters who can draw, aim and shoot and hit a moving target....faster then the human eye can see. You only see them putting their gun back in their holster....

People can sense things right before they happen...and sure science would tell you that.....somehow...your detecting a sign. Like your body feels the 'tiny' heat increase, air movement or something before a campfire explodes.

And the above does not even get into the real....strange stuff:

Like around half of all people "somehow" know if someone is watching them....and even more so "somehow" can find the person at look right at them. Somehow many people can feel when they are looked at.....there is really no explanation, but it happens far too much not to be something.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

Why does everything need to be labelled? There is no particular need to name the source of power for each thing, since we don't do much of anything with that information.

When I watch a fantasy movie, lots of times guys with swords do things that would be simply ridiculous and impossible in our real world. But nobody in the film gasps and says, "Oh, my gosh, that guy is using magic!!!1!!one!".

Martial characters in D&D need to keep up with wizards and cleric who throw fireballs and summon demons from the netherworlds. Those martial characters will therefore need to be capable of feats that would be ridiculous to see in our world.

I DO NOT CARE if that is called "mundane" or "supernatural." I care about the resulting functionality and balance, not the label. To make everyone happy, build the function, and for some subclasses call it "mundane" and for others, flavor it as some supernatural source.

I think the OP is asking this because it's quite common for someone to suggest a solution to the balance problem only for someone else to complain about it being supernatural and not mundane, or whatever.

I don't think it's really a desire to label everything from the OP's perspective.