D&D 5E Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?

[ECMO3]

"Should martial characters be mundane, realistic, or supernatural?"

Because I think many are thinking mundane = realistic as posters have suggested John Wick as mundane.

I think the word you are looking for is extraordinary. I think it fine to make subclasses to do that, and some like Cavalier, Champion and Battlemaster already do things like that a bit, albeit in small doses. I would be totally cool with new subclasses of Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue and Monk to explore those concepts. I would also be cool with feats that accomplish these sorts of things.

That said, I think the classes themselves already have as much as they need in that regard through the rules in the PHB and DMG and I would be opposed to any changes in the classes themselves to accomplish this, especially since if you put that in the class mechanics you get it AND the things, often supernatural, that you get through the subclasses.

If you said the exact "realistic" things you want to do it would be easier to understand

 

[Minigiant]

I think the word you are looking for is extraordinary. I think it fine to make subclasses to do that, and some like Cavalier, Champion and Battlemaster already do things like that a bit, albeit in small doses. I would be totally cool with new subclasses of Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue and Monk to explore those concepts. I would also be cool with feats that accomplish these sorts of things.

That said, I think the classes themselves already have as much as they need in that regard through the rules in the PHB and DMG and I would be opposed to any changes in the classes themselves to accomplish this, especially since if you put that in the class mechanics you get it AND the things, often supernatural, that you get through the subclasses.

If you said the exact "realistic" things you want to do it would be easier to understand

Extraordinary doesn't fit everything as Extraordinary means very usual. There are some normal stuff missing in D&D due to its abstraction that is normal but a little part to pull off without training while still not being abnormal.

For example the lack of momentum in D&D combat. Physical momentum. Tactical momentum. Mental Momentum.
The lack of trickery and spotting trickery.
The slash of fighting styles.
D&D doesn't give warriors the ability to KO lesser foes who are well trained. A champion might humble a lesser challenger who is a major threat themselves. The action hero might take on a squad of ninjas but those ninjas aren't 1HD mooks.

 

[Tony Vargas]

For example the lack of momentum in D&D combat. Physical momentum. Tactical momentum. Mental Momentum.

Care to expand on that one? It reminded me of the 13A rogue using a mechanic like that....

D&D doesn't give warriors the ability to KO lesser foes who are well trained. A champion might humble a lesser challenger who is a major threat themselves. The action hero might take on a squad of ninjas but those ninjas aren't 1HD mooks.

That's partly due to 5e BA.

 

[Minigiant]

Care to expand on that one? It reminded me of the 13A rogue using a mechanic like that....

Physical. A pushed opponent is easily to topple. A knocked over opponent is easier leap atop.
Mental- Frightened or Infuriated foes leave themselves open which make them easily to take out. And that can cascade on their allies.

13A Rogue's momentum system is good representation of it. Some RPGs and card games do combo systems too.

 

[Maxperson]

No argument from me. It is a blurry line.

With totem I went back and forth on where it should land and then finally decided on Mundane. Zealot I had clearly on the mundane side, but I have not played one and did not look closely at the abilities, so I am probably wrong.

I think Totem Barbarians are absolutely supernatural. You take on aspects of your totem spirit and commune with nature as a spirit walker. The spiritual aspect is supernatural.

Path of the zealot channels divine fury into their weapon, has their soul marked by the gods to be easier to raise from the dead, channels divine power into focus and presence, etc. It's definitely supernatural.

 

[Maxperson]

We already have an overwhelming number of supernatural martials. We have more supernatural martials then we have mundane martials.

"Some" are calling for things that already exist in the game in abundance.

The problem isn't calling for things that already exist in abundance. The problem is that anything a martial can do that can match mid to high level magic is going to be either supernatural or nonsense. A purely mundane act can only get you so far before it caps out. Mundane cannot rationally match magic/supernatural.

 

[ECMO3]

For example the lack of momentum in D&D combat. Physical momentum. Tactical momentum. Mental Momentum.

the only momentum that is actually real is the scientific/kinematic version of momentum (i.e. an objects mass times its velocity or its moment of inertial times its angular velocity). That would be extremely difficult to implement in an RPG

D&D doesn't give warriors the ability to KO lesser foes who are well trained. A champion might humble a lesser challenger who is a major threat themselves. The action hero might take on a squad of ninjas but those ninjas aren't 1HD mooks.

I'm still not sure exactly what you want, but again I think a subclass is the right place for that, or alternatively make it an optional feature to replace extra attack, kind of Like Rangers where they have features where they can choose one or the other.

Also from your description I only think this should apply to fighters and Monks, not other non-casters.

 

[Voadam]

I think Totem Barbarians are absolutely supernatural. You take on aspects of your totem spirit and commune with nature as a spirit walker. The spiritual aspect is supernatural.

Eagle. While raging, you have a flying speed equal to your current walking speed.

 

[ECMO3]

Eagle. While raging, you have a flying speed equal to your current walking speed.

That is the ability that put me on the fence, but it is only for eagles and only at high levels which is why I thought the subclass is [mostly] mundane.

I don't really see communing with the spirit world or being chosen by a god as supernatural as we have those things IRL (or at least people claim they do and it is difficult to disprove that).

So in my mind divine ferver doing extra weapon damage (like a Zealot), is not really supernatural. While if that damage were radiant, then yes clearly supernatural. And flying of course is clearly supernatural.

It is certainly not an objective call.

 

[Maxperson]

That is the ability that put me on the fence, but it is at high levels.

I don't really see communing with the spirit world or being chosen by a god as supernatural as we have those things IRL (or at least people believe they do).

That's literally saying that you don't see the supernatural as supernatural. Spirts and divine power are by definition supernatural. They are not natural.

It is certainly not an objective call.

We know the definitions of natural and supernatural and communing with spirits and using divine power don't fit the definition of natural at all. You might as well call magic natural at that point.