D&D 4E Should terrain be move vulnerable to damage in 4E?

[Voss]

I don't know how much terrain destruction we're going to get beyond 'You're battling on a rickety old rope bridge. Send the hobgoblins plummeting to their death?'

Just like monsters are dead at 0 hp unless melodrama dictates otherwise, I suspect terrain will be <relatively> invulnerable unless Kewl Over the TOP Akshun!!! dictates otherwise.

 

[WyzardWhately]

I just really hope there are some high-level spells that will let me blow up castle walls. I've always wanted to do that.

 

[Simm]

I just really hope there are some high-level spells that will let me blow up castle walls. I've always wanted to do that.

Nah, they're rituals under the new rules.

 

[WyzardWhately]

Nah, they're rituals under the new rules.

*ponders*

I'd be okay with that.

 

[Incenjucar]

This is one of these threads that's absolutely fascinating to read, because my desires in D&D play are precisely the opposite of what everyone else in the thread wants/expects for 4E. I've always thought that 3E objects were, if anything, a lot too easily destroyable (cartoonishly so with 3.5 adamantine weapon rules).

This just tells me you haven't been involved in much demolition.

 

[frankthedm]

I've never liked the concept of power attacking inanimate objects. Isn't it assumed that when you are chopping down a door, you are hitting it as hard as you can? I'd personally houserule against power attacking things.

SW:Saga's power attack only worked against creatures, not objects IIRC.


Well, things are coming down to the wire and I have not heard too much on ruining terrain yet.

 

[Revinor]

That's my main problem with it. The hp values are nowhere "realistic". And miners trying to mine anything are screwed in 3E.

Miners are not hitting walls with two handed swords using combat maneuvers. Rules are bit different in such case.

Plus - when was last time you have tried to destroy some strong wall in real life? I remember when we wanted to go through the 2-brick wide wall to get into some forgotten fort in my city. We had a good hammer plus a some kind of spike-thing which is used for chipping off concrete. We aimed for 40x40cm hole. We got over 10 people, but only 1 set of tools, so everybody was doing his best for 5 minutes and then we switched. We got like half brick deep in 2 hours... Yes, these were good bricks (castle quality), not like ones used in contemporary buildings.

Fortunately for us, after this time, some old man came and asked what we are doing. we got completly scared that he is from police, but it turned out that he is retired miner and he offered he can finish it for us... in 15 minutes rest of the hole was done. As all 10 people were heavily RPG oriented we immediately called this encounter as deus-ex-machina from bored game master - what are chances of meeting the retired, helpful miner in the woods, 400 km from the closest mine?

Story aside, since the I have a proper respect versus well made walls. If you count how many hp of damage we have caused during this time...

 

[Rex Blunder]

Hmm... I wonder if the per-encounter rules could be used. Make the hardness of the wall a little higher than the expected damage of an at-will attack, so that the characters can't tunnel through walls quickly out of combat, but damageable by per-encounter abilities - and with generally lower hit points. That way terrain can be destructible in combat, and out of combat, the characters only get one destructive blast in every 5 minutes.

Of course it's an abuse of the system, and miners don't stand around for 5 minutes summoning up the energy for a super sledgehammer swing. Also, characters' expected damage goes up as they level. Maybe you'd just say that only encounter and daily powers damage the environment?

 

[Cryptos]

I think not. If the PC are able to destroy the wall, it will rob the DM of his power to nose-lead them through the tunnels and corridors of the Dungeon. So, no sunder, no breakable wall. Look for the red key to open the red door, then, look for the blue key.

* the above post is an exorcism*

An exorcism?

Anyway, I'd feel pretty sorry for that DM in general, because in 4e he doesn't have to do the whole "hide the blue key, hide the red key" stuff. He just has to say:

"Skill Challenge! Ahead of you are several doors, each of a different color. They are all locked with what seem to be incredibly complex, magical locks. It seems as though you're not going to go any further unless you find a way through those doors."

Let the PCs figure it out. If they want to go searching for a blue key with Perception checks, that's their thing. But it's bound to be more entertaining and engaging to leave them to it, set up the obstacle, the number of successes needed (and failures to avoid), and just smile mischievously as they sort it out themselves.

If a DM had an entire linear, keyed dungeon like the above, he's not using the potential of 4e very well, from what I can tell.

Let the walls get blown out... just make sure the focus of your skill challenges is suitably indestructable.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Do you really want fireballs taking out walls?

So you are 4 levels underground, in a long 15 ft corridor and meet a horde of bad guys coming the other way a the wizard drops a fireball, the warlock misses with a zap and takeout a pillar in the chamber beyond.

the fight continues in to the chamber at the end of the corridor where the ogre tosses the fighter in to a pillar crfacking it. There is a sharp crack from above and the and dust starts from the ceiling. Splits appear in the ceiling and you run back the way you came as the cambers behind collapse.

You spend the rest of the month digging your way back to the surface (done as s skill challange)