Should the DM "kill" a character?

[Ravilah]

IMHO, this debate is not really over whether the orc would or would not have a logical reason to smite the fallen cleric (we could come up with dozens, as I think we already have), but it is really a question of whether the DM should have purposely killed off the PC.

As has been already stated, the answer to this question depends greatly on the attitude/maturity of the people at the table, as well as the DM's personal opinion on what constitutes "fun."

Personally, as a sadistic DM of diabolical proportions, I make it no secret to my players that I am out to kill them. Of course, I never...well rarely...um...on occasion have been known to dump them into deadly situations rather beyond their capabilities. But they always have the option of fleeing (or avoiding the situation altogther if they haven't been careless). But once they engage in combat, I AM OUT TO KILL THEM. If there is any logical reason for a creature's lethal behavior, I use it. I stick to the die rolls, stick to the rules, and stick to my principles (my chief principle being that I get five more points on my Evil DM scorecard if I get a TPK).

Like someone said: there's always raise dead.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

A GM that holds back with "unwritten rules" and then breaks them should get smacked around a tad. Granted, it's not a rule I would use as a GM and as a player I wouldn't particularly like being pampered, but a GM has to make up his mind as to which one he's doing and stick to it.

Of course, I think the worst I've done was when I killed off 3 members of a 5 member party by means of a dragon that would show up, snatch one, and then carry him off for a little one-on-one time, returning a few hours later to snatch another one. Granted, they were warned several times not to go through the valley, but they did anyways, so I say they got what they deserved (especially since they could have turned around after the first snatching, which they didn't, thus making themselves even more deserving).

 

[S'mon]

I would only do it if it was a tactically obvious decision for _an orc_ to make. Usually fighters have better things to do than finish off downed foes while the battle is still raging.

 

[S'mon]

If as DM you don't want to kill unconscious PCs, maybe use a Fate Points system where players can spend FPs to avoid having their PC killed?

 

[res]

As far as LoTRs goes, if you are refering to the scene where the orc commander puts a spear through dying commander, memory serves that was during the mop up operations, which is what you do.

That wasn't the scene I was refering to. I was talking in general, there are scenes where the generic bad guy hits the generic good guy when they are down (as I recall, perhaps I'll have to watch the movies again to get a specific example)


In this case, maybe the orc who delivered the killing blow would be unable to reach another player. The description of the encounter leaves a few things to the imagination. For example, maybe all the other characters are already engaged with multiple orcs. One blood thirsty orc could decide that instead of "getting in line" to fight he'll just take out some frustration on this one guy, who may or may not be alive.

 

[Nareth]

Our party has lost members numerous times. My own fighter has been killed 3 seperate times on his own. Of course, our group is 10th-14th level at this time, and sometimes the costs of dying are offset by our DM in his own devious ways. But, it keeps us on our toes, knowing that we could be killed at any given time.

 

[wujenta]

I try not to continue to attack a fallen character if there is another one near that can be attacked, but if not, well, there is always resurrection.

In one game, the party was fighting with fire elementals and with the wizard who has summoned them. The monk was down to -5 HP, and the evil wizard, who was a pyromaniac, trhow a delayed fireball to the group, so the unconscious character died and nearly all his magical items were destroyed, as they were unatended objects and the fireball dealt a lot of damage

 

[DragonLancer]

It is a skirmish with a band of Orcs attacking the party. The Orcs are attacking from either flank in two groups. You have several powerful Orcs on one flank who have smashed down the party's Cleric deep into the negatives but not to the point of fatality.
What happens next shocks the party.

The DM plays the Orcs to their alignment and one of them simply kills the fallen cleric with a blow. The players are just simply not use to this though. There was a general state of shock as a character that had been developed over many many sessions was "taken out of the game".

I think you did the right thing. Player characters would do the same thing to the orcs, whether there and then, or as soon as the last orc drops. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

I believe in running a game where death is a possibility, and players should not come into a game and not expect to suffer losses.

 

[res]

I think you did the right thing. Player characters would do the same thing to the orcs, whether there and then, or as soon as the last orc drops. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

I believe in running a game where death is a possibility, and players should not come into a game and not expect to suffer losses.

You're missing the issue. The orc killed the player while combat was still going on.

Most PCs that I know, will wait until all of the other enemies have been killed/knocked out/fled before they go around and finish off everyone not dead.

 

[the Jester]

First off, this game is about the heroes. Killing them when there was a chance for the party to save them is going against the spirit of the game. Helping a downed companion has a long and storied history in the game. When the monsters just finish off the players, you deny the other players a chance to use their skills and potions in a postive way to help the character.

(Emphasis mine)

I absolutely disagree here, especially with the part I bolded.

There is always a chance to save a downed pc. Does that mean they should never die? Should a pc be 'immune' to being knocked to -10 in one blow because the party cleric might be able to heal his present wounds?

Helping a downed companion does have a long and storied history in the game. So do ruthless, pc-slaying monsters.

Whatever makes the game fun for you is right for you, though; there is no objectively 'correct' way to play rpgs. But for me, and for the folk in my group, the kid gloves came off literally decades ago.