Ulthwithian said:I'll note that in my group Knock looks like it will be quite useful. The Warlock might have Thievery, might not. Even if he does, the Wizard's (and the Warlord's!) Arcana skill would be much higher than his Thievery skill. As such, the Knock ritual definitely has its benefits.
Further, I think the people discussing Knock might be missing one of the most useful aspects of it; it can 'unlock' items that Thievery simply can't. The example of a gate barred from the other side is explicitly given. Another point is that it's probably most useful on locked items that are portable. I could place a chest somewhere that is extremely difficult to unlock (i.e., the Thievery guy may be completely unable to open it), knowing that the Knock Ritual exists and that the players can resort to it.
Also, the existence of Arcane Lock more or less requires a ritual to help defeat it. The characters I have could lock something with Arcane Lock, and have an average result of 28 at 4th level. At least for my group, the Thievery guy might be able to unlock that with a 20 at 4th level... 20 + 5 + 1 + 2... I guess it all depends on if he has a Dex bonus or not. (As a Star-pact Warlock, that's not all that likely.)
And in all cases it would be cheaper, faster, and just as quiet to use force to get past the door or gate.