Shouldn't Prestige Classes be done differently?

[fanboy2000]

They aren't designed to be like the D&D prestige classes. They're just supposed to be the classes you can get to once you've made it through about 12 gaming sessions. The D&D prestige classes tend to require a little more effort.

Yep, that's why I sugested them. d20M's emphasis on bonus feats and flexibility help address the problem of cookie-cutter PrCs.

Meh. d20 Modern advanced classes are basically prestige classes with a much lower level requirement.

Yeah, but the solder advanced class isn't just a better strong hero.

Anyways, I don't think the game mechanics behind PrCs need to be changed, but I do think that WotC's attitude needs to change. That's another thread though.

 

[Gez]

This reminds me of my prestige feat idea. I wanted to convert all prestige classes into feat chains, before dropping the idea as not that good for the work it needs.

Another possibility is to have prestige classes with different paths, and different ways to qualify. The core of the class (HD, skills, BAB and saves) would stay the same, but class abilities would depend on the prereqs you meet.

 

[Mark Causey]

This reminds me of my prestige feat idea. I wanted to convert all prestige classes into feat chains, before dropping the idea as not that good for the work it needs.

Another possibility is to have prestige classes with different paths, and different ways to qualify. The core of the class (HD, skills, BAB and saves) would stay the same, but class abilities would depend on the prereqs you meet.

Kind of like the spells in Complete Adventurer that have different effects based off of you skill level (no ranks, 5 ranks, 10 ranks = effect 1, effect 1+2, effect 1+2 or 3).

 

[arscott]

This reminds me of my prestige feat idea. I wanted to convert all prestige classes into feat chains, before dropping the idea as not that good for the work it needs.

Another possibility is to have prestige classes with different paths, and different ways to qualify. The core of the class (HD, skills, BAB and saves) would stay the same, but class abilities would depend on the prereqs you meet.

I'd do it just the opposite:

Take the proposed lizard cultist class as an example:

at 1st level, it always gives you speak with reptiles
at 2nd level, it always gives you a swim speed
and so on and so forth, but:

you can choose to either gain spellcasting progression, good BaB, or good skill points.

 

[Staffan]

To have 7 cross-class ranks in a skill you must be...*counts fingers*...11th level.

Mutant!

 

[Mark Causey]

I'd do it just the opposite:

Take the proposed lizard cultist class as an example:

at 1st level, it always gives you speak with reptiles
at 2nd level, it always gives you a swim speed
and so on and so forth, but:

you can choose to either gain spellcasting progression, good BaB, or good skill points.

Which goes back to the racial substitution cum organizational substitution levels. You could state something along the lines of the following:

Lizard Cultist Levels

Any character wishing to join the Lizard Cult (and having survived the initiation) is eligible for following Lizard Cultist Substitution Levels, provided they meet the following prerequisites:

Alignment: within bounds for Lashelas, Lizard Goddess (AL CE)
BAB: +1
Race: Humanoid, Dragon, Giant

Lizard Cultist Substitution Levels
A Lizard Cultist can choose one of the following:

Shaman
Skills as per Cleric.

   [u]BAB[/u]  [u]Fort[/u]    [u]Ref[/u]   [u]Will[/u]    [u]Abilities[/u]
1.  +0    +2     +0     +2    Evil Spell Focus*, +1 spellcasting level

*Evil Spells are cast at +1 caster level.

Avenger
Skills as per Druid.

   [u]BAB[/u]  [u]Fort[/u]    [u]Ref[/u]   [u]Will[/u]    [u]Abilities[/u]
1.  +1    +2     +0     +0    Favored Enemy (Human)*, Smite Infidel**, Exotic WP (Trident)

*If already possessing the ability, add +2.
** As per the Paladin ability, but against any who don't have Lashelas as their chosen deity.

Sneak
Skills as per Rogue.

   [u]BAB[/u]  [u]Fort[/u]    [u]Ref[/u]   [u]Will[/u]    [u]Abilities[/u]
1.  +0    +0     +2     +0    Sneak Attack +1d6, Skill Focus (Swim)

Paragon
Skills as per Monstrous Humanoid.

   [u]BAB[/u]  [u]Fort[/u]    [u]Ref[/u]   [u]Will[/u]    [u]Abilities[/u]
1.  +0    +2     +2     +0    Water Breathing*, Swim Speed +10'**

*Water becomes an additional breathable medium.
**Stacks with itself.

This is all a rough draft, of course, but I think this is what you're asking for?

 

[Abstraction]

Yes, essentially. Quite a few people talk about substitution levels. I don't own a bunch of books. Substitution levels are not core or in the Complete series, so I have not familiarity.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Yes, essentially. Quite a few people talk about substitution levels. I don't own a bunch of books. Substitution levels are not core or in the Complete series, so I have not familiarity.

Substitution levels were presented in Races of Stone, methinks.

I haven't read much on Substitution levels, but they are usually class-specific, which means you'll have to devise 11 variations (at least) of a single substitution level for each PrC level you have.

I still say that spending XP in exchange for abilities would be a simple(r) way.

AR

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Why should the organization have only one PrC?

Look at Complete Adventurer: It has three sets of 2 PrC's each. Both these PrC's belong to the same organization, share several characteristics, but are for different jobs (and different people.

Example: Daggerspell League. Guys who mix spellcasting with two weapon fighting (two daggers) and can cast with those two daggers in hands. The daggerspell mage is for arcanists and focus on magic, daggerspell shapers are druids and focus on fighting.

You can do the same with your organization. Maybe the Crimson Cloak, which is the guard and secret service (and related stuff) for a kingdom has the Crimson Arcanist, the Crimson Enforcer, the Crimson Sneak, and the Crimson Herald (arcane spellcaster, warrior, stealth-based charakter, social skill based character). They have different requirements, different class features, but some common thread (resilience against fear-based effects maybe, for the Crimson Cloak is famous for its fearless operatives)

See? Works

 

[Abstraction]

Let's say I have about twenty organizations, guilds, secret societies and cults I want to stat out. Not a large number, really. These are groups whose membership is fairly open to different classes. So I craft 4 prestige classes each, with each prestige class being a 5 or 10 level class. That's 80 prestige classes! Not an efficient way of solving what should be a simple problem.