D&D 5E Signs & Portents (that we can read into) about the ETA of 5E

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
I'm just not seeing it. Anecdotally, I personally know exactly zero people who have ever been to GenCon, and I've done most of my gaming until recently in the midwest.

I also don't think many gamers are going to miss the memo about the new D&D. Heck, even if they are V:tR LARPers, someone is probably going to mention it.

I think the potential gains in releasing it at GenCon are far less than the gains in releasing it well-developed and refined, with limited need to errata and minimized design flaws.
WOTC has always released at or slightly before GenCon. Pathfinder was also released at GenCon. You or the people you know might not go. That doesn't mean that 50,000 people didn't go this year.

I think a lot of gamers are a lot more insular than you think. A large number of D&D players get together to play once a month and never enter a gaming store or hang out with other gamers. Sure, there are many gamers who are involved in the community. However, I've run or played games at GenCon a number of years in a row now and you'd be surprised the number of people I see playing in the Living Greyhawk/Living Forgotten Realms games who have told me that they only game at GenCon(or at least only play D&D at GenCon). When I DMed Living Forgotten Realms the first year it was available over half the players who sat down to game had never played 4e before even though it came out 2 months earlier. I had to teach the rules of the game over and over again that weekend.

Either way, even if gamers don't go, game review sites(even the minor ones) will be there and will be posting their reviews of 5e from their experiences at GenCon. Some people who aren't D&D gamers will go to GenCon just to try it since they don't have the time or inclination to try it on their own.
 

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Manabarbs

Explorer
Doing something big for Gen Con may make more sense now than ever; Gen Con's attendance has spiked dramatically in the past five or six years. That doesn't mean that there aren't potential pros to other dates, but if Gen Con was a good idea when it was a lot smaller, it's probably an even better idea now.
 

WOTC has always released at or slightly before GenCon. Pathfinder was also released at GenCon. You or the people you know might not go. That doesn't mean that 50,000 people didn't go this year.

I think a lot of gamers are a lot more insular than you think. A large number of D&D players get together to play once a month and never enter a gaming store or hang out with other gamers.

How many groups are there where no one is online? It's the information age. Even those groups are going to get the memo eventually, unless they all live in the same cave.

Sure, there are many gamers who are involved in the community. However, I've run or played games at GenCon a number of years in a row now and you'd be surprised the number of people I see playing in the Living Greyhawk/Living Forgotten Realms games who have told me that they only game at GenCon(or at least only play D&D at GenCon).

You're right, I probably would be surprised and mistaken there. I guess some people do just dabble at cons. How many of those are going to start up a new campaign just because a new version is out? Seems like 5e would have to be pretty spectacular to convert once a year players into regular consumers. So, no point to releasing 5e at GenCon on their account.

When I DMed Living Forgotten Realms the first year it was available over half the players who sat down to game had never played 4e before even though it came out 2 months earlier. I had to teach the rules of the game over and over again that weekend.

But how many had never heard of 4e? That's more important.

Either way, even if gamers don't go, game review sites(even the minor ones) will be there and will be posting their reviews of 5e from their experiences at GenCon. Some people who aren't D&D gamers will go to GenCon just to try it since they don't have the time or inclination to try it on their own.

Fair enough. Media exposure is important.

How about this: They can announce the release date at or before GenCon, and that date is near the end of the year. At GenCon they are releasing and running a preview adventure. They will announce that in June. Participants in the preview will have an opportunity to try out the "final" rules and then be given a survey regarding them. In addition, the preview adventure will be sold, and surveys posted online. The survey is designed to catch any last minute bugs or major dissatisfactions. An actual "playtest." They can then fix those bugs at the last minute instead of errataing the game after release.

You get the build up excitement, the exposure, and the bug testing all at once, and you can put out a more polished product by year's end.
 

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
How many groups are there where no one is online? It's the information age. Even those groups are going to get the memo eventually, unless they all live in the same cave.
Being online doesn't necessarily mean reading RPG news sites or anywhere you'd get the information.
You're right, I probably would be surprised and mistaken there. I guess some people do just dabble at cons. How many of those are going to start up a new campaign just because a new version is out? Seems like 5e would have to be pretty spectacular to convert once a year players into regular consumers. So, no point to releasing 5e at GenCon on their account.
Perhaps. However, I think a number of these people run campaigns that happen 3 times a year or something in their homes without paying much attention to the RPG scene in general. Some of them play other RPGs on a regular basis but just don't play D&D that often. However, a number of them USED to play D&D all the time and have kind of lapsed in order to play board games or video games all the time. Some of them play D&D once a year at cons as a way of reliving the "good old days" when they used to play D&D all the time.

A number of them are just looking for an excuse to start playing. And you're right, it would have to be pretty spectacular to convince these players. However, if you can convince them you can get a lot more customers.

But how many had never heard of 4e? That's more important.
A number. Can't say exactly how many. However, I knew the guy who was running the "Help people make characters for 4e" table. He was busy all weekend and the most common reason he was helping people make characters is because people would show up to the RPGA HQ booth and say "I used to play D&D, but I don't even know what edition it is anymore. I have a 3e character, is that still good?" only to be told that it was now 4e and they should go to his table and he'd teach them the game.

At the tables I was running more than one person showed up for the Living Greyhawk sessions I was running and said "We don't have a character and don't know how to play...what do we do? We played once last year...can we use those characters?" I had to direct them to the RPGA HQ in order to pick up a premade character and then pretty much teach them to play on the fly. They had no idea that there was a 4e.

Fair enough. Media exposure is important.

How about this: They can announce the release date at or before GenCon, and that date is near the end of the year. At GenCon they are releasing and running a preview adventure. They will announce that in June. Participants in the preview will have an opportunity to try out the "final" rules and then be given a survey regarding them. In addition, the preview adventure will be sold, and surveys posted online. The survey is designed to catch any last minute bugs or major dissatisfactions. An actual "playtest." They can then fix those bugs at the last minute instead of errataing the game after release.

You get the build up excitement, the exposure, and the bug testing all at once, and you can put out a more polished product by year's end.
I, personally, don't think that time is needed. We've been playing D&D Next weekly from the playtest for over a year now with no major issues. Other than a small amount of tweaking of the math and maybe a little more information on encounter building, and some more spells, feats, monsters and magic items it seems rather done to me. It doesn't even need very many more of these, either.

Other than that, I suppose your plan would work. I just think that there'd be too big of a gap before releasing products. February being the end of everything they have planned for D&D Next, having a preview adventure that comes out 6 months later and only tides people over for 4 more months before the real game comes out seems awfully slow. People are used to something new coming out about every 2-3 months.

It's certainly possible for them to string people along by breaking their word and releasing another playtest. However, if they were serious about this being the LAST playtest...then the game needs to come out at or before GenCon next year.
 

jodyjohnson

Adventurer
I just think that there'd be too big of a gap before releasing products. February being the end of everything they have planned for D&D Next, having a preview adventure that comes out 6 months later and only tides people over for 4 more months before the real game comes out seems awfully slow. People are used to something new coming out about every 2-3 months.

"Legacy of the Crystal Shard" released last Friday to premier stores and next Tuesday for the rest. Stats are in the packet.

They announced "Battle of Emridy Meadows" for the December Dragon as having a DD Next conversion.

Mid-February has "Scourge of the Sword Coast" (Sundering 3) on the list for Encounters and like all the Sundering modules is 3.5/4/DDN. Probably at retail although the schedule past December hasn't been posted.

Three months later (May) is "Dead in Thay" (Sundering 4) on the list for Encounters and 3.5/4/DDN. Likely retail in May.

Given that they announced 5 Sundering adventures and seem to be planning for 5, I expect the Sundering 5 adventure in July or August for the fifth Sundering season of Encounters.
 

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
Given that they announced 5 Sundering adventures and seem to be planning for 5, I expect the Sundering 5 adventure in July or August for the fifth Sundering season of Encounters.
I was unaware there were 5 adventures in the Sundering series. Then let me revise my estimates to the release date actually being GenCon instead of before. I think they'll want to time the release so that it comes out around the time of the 5th adventure or shortly thereafter.
 

Emerikol

Adventurer
I think Gen Con is a no brainer. Most of the game will go live on that date. There might be some basic set available earlier. I don't think they will miss the 40th anniversary.
 

Erik Mona

Adventurer
What is "Battle of Emridy Meadows"? I'm familiar with the TOEE reference, but I don't read Dragon anymore so I missed mention of it until now. Could someone provide some details?
 

jodyjohnson

Adventurer
What is "Battle of Emridy Meadows"? I'm familiar with the TOEE reference, but I don't read Dragon anymore so I missed mention of it until now. Could someone provide some details?


All we know is on the D&D Next Playtest page:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDNext.aspx

"These adventures also use D&D Next or have D&D Next conversions available for download.
•Battle of Emridy Meadows (Dungeon magazine December 2013)"
 

Quartz

Hero
What is "Battle of Emridy Meadows"? I'm familiar with the TOEE reference, but I don't read Dragon anymore so I missed mention of it until now. Could someone provide some details?

The Battle of Emridy Meadows was basically the big battle after the dissolution of the Citadel of Eight, Mordenkainen's first group. IIRC some of the henchmen of the Citadel went on to become major NPCs in ToEE.
 

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