Silly Question: Cleric Domain Abilities

[Thanee]

But, given your opinion on almost anything that "could possibly be read two ways one of which gives more power than the other" so often difers from established sources of rules determinations (errata, FAQ, the overwhelming majority of players and DMs here, and sometimes the rules themselves), I feel safe in saying that you having an opinion that would not allow something to increase power in any manner more than absolutely necessary is not shocking.

I really have no idea how you get to that conclusion.

It's definitely wrong. I don't base my opinion on anything being weak or strong (except when making house rules, of course), but rather on consistency within the rules and the spirit of the rules.

Besides, I highly doubt, that my opinion differs from 'established sources of rules' often (it does sometimes, when the established sources are unreasonable , but certainly not often).

Where you are right is, that I'm almost always against open interpretations, which have no foundation in the rules (i.e. the Extra Spell discussion). This is not one of them, however, here I just think so, because I feel it should be that way (or is meant that way); I'm well aware, that the rules don't specifically state any restrictions on the ability.

Anyways... with the clerical stuff, of course, I did not mean general abilities, like the Luck domain, but rather those, that enhance the cleric's spells and such. Domain powers are also only based on cleric level, not class level, altho they only say level in most cases.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

That's kind of the way I'm leaning, Nail and Dimwhit.

So what's your position on specialist wizards? Can an Abjurer/Bard who's banned Conjuration activate a wand of cure light wounds?

Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard, and she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands.

-Hyp.

 

[Dimwhit]

So what's your position on specialist wizards? Can an Abjurer/Bard who's banned Conjuration activate a wand of cure light wounds?

Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard, and she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands.

-Hyp.

If I'm a DM and a Wizard has Conjuration as a banned school, he absolutely can't cast non-Wizard Conjuration spells. A banned school of magic is a banned school of magic, regardless if it's a Cleric, Druid, or Wizard spell.

That's my opinion, anyway. Does the RAW address it at all?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

It's my understanding that the specialist wizard restrictions come about because the spells of the prohibited schools are no longer considered part of the wizard's spell list.

Specifically, "she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands" could be considered a false statement, because anybody can cast those spells from scrolls or fire them from wands with a sufficient UMD check. Unless, of course, you believe the above means that while a Rogue could UMD a scroll of Chill Touch, a diviner could not.

 

[Thanee]

What Patryn said (even though it's the 'stronger' option, doh!).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Dimwhit]

It's my understanding that the specialist wizard restrictions come about because the spells of the prohibited schools are no longer considered part of the wizard's spell list.

Specifically, "she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands" could be considered a false statement, because anybody can cast those spells from scrolls or fire them from wands with a sufficient UMD check. Unless, of course, you believe the above means that while a Rogue could UMD a scroll of Chill Touch, a diviner could not.

Here is the full text on it:

At this time, she must also give up two other schools of magic (unless she chooses to specialize in divination; see below), which become her prohibited schools. A wizard can never give up divination to fulfill this requirement. Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard, and she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands.

To me, that says a Wizard cannot use that school at all--spells, wands, scroll, etc. Anything involving casting the spell or using spell-completion (I may be reading a bit too far into it).

I would also include spells of the same school but a different class.

 

[Camarath]

It's my understanding that the specialist wizard restrictions come about because the spells of the prohibited schools are no longer considered part of the wizard's spell list.

I am just wondering but is this stated or clarified anywhere?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I thought it was, Camarath. Darned if I can find it right now, though.

EDIT:

It comes from this statement: "Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard."

There's really no other way to parse that then, "... are no longer considered to be on his or her class spell list."

Otherwise, it could be taken to mean something like, "Whenever a specialist wizard goes into a store, shopkeepers refuse to sell him MM scrolls."

EDIT:

Sorry - I had to do it.

[sblock]
WIZARD: Good Morning.

SHOPKEEPER: Good morning, sir. Welcome to the National Spell Emporium.

W: Ah, thank you my good man.

SK: What can I do for you, sir?

W: Well, I was, uh, sitting in the public laboratory on Thurmond Street just now, skimming through Ars Maleficarum by Hazrad the Mad, and I suddenly felt the need to end something’s physical existence.

SK: End something’s physical existence, sir?

W: Yes, to blast the very soul from the body of my enemy.

SK: Eh?

W: (In a broad Yorkshire accent) Eee, I wanna kill somethin’, like.

SK: Ah, violent.

W: In a nutshell. And I thought to myself, 'a little bolt of force will do the trick'. So I curtailed my maleficient activites, sallied forth, and infiltrated your place of purveyance to negotiate the vending of some arcane darts.

SK: Come again?

W: I want to buy Magic Missile.

SK: Oh, I thought you were complaining about the bouzouki player.

W: Oh, heaven forbid. I am one who delights in all manifestations of the Terpsichorean muse.

SK: Sorry?

W: (In a broad Yorkshire accent) Ooo, I like a nice tune - you're forced to.

SK: So he can go on playing, can he?

W: Most certainly. Now then, a scroll of Magic Missile please, my good man.

SK: Certainly, sir. What tradition would you like?

W: Well, eh, how about a little Harper’s Best?
SK: I'm afraid we're fresh out of Harper’s Best, sir.

W: Oh never mind, how are you on Tenser?

SK: I'm afraid we never have that at the end of the week, sir. We get it fresh on Monday.

W: Tish tish. No matter. Well, stout yeoman, four scrolls of Majere, if you please.

SK: Ah. It's been on order, sir, for two weeks. I was expecting it this morning.

W: It's not my lucky day, is it? Er, Bes Pelargic?

SK: Sorry, sir.

W: Red Wizard?

SK: Normally, sir, yes. Today the griffon broke down.

W: Ah. Rary?

SK: Sorry.

W: Elementalist? Mordenkainen?

SK: No.

W: Any Waterdhavian Blackstaff, per chance?

SK: No.

W: Lilliputian?

SK: No.

W: Elven high magic?

SK: No.

W: White Silverymoon?

SK: No.

W: Sharn Blue?

SK: No.

W: Twinned?

SK: ..... No.

W: Cat-wizard of Chuult?

SK: No.

W: Blue Wizard?

SK: No.

W: Bree, Rockhome, Freeport, Kingsport, Savant, Saint Talia of Mystra, Caramon, Belgarath, Belgarion?

SK: No.

W: Alustriel, perhaps?

SK: Ah! We have a scroll from Alustriel, yes sir.

W: You do! Excellent.

SK: Yes, sir. It's, ah ..... it's a bit draconic.

W: Oh, I like it draconic.

SK: Well, it's very draconic, actually, sir.

W: No matter. Fetch hither le scroll de la Belle de Silverymoon! M-mmm!

SK: I think it's a bit more draconic than you'll like it, sir.

W: I don't care how darn runny it is. Hand it over with all speed.

SK: Oh .....

W: What now?

SK: The cat's cast it.

W: Has he?

SK: She, sir.

(pause)
W: Gord?

SK: No.

W: Elminster?

SK: No.

W: Cabalistic?

SK: No.

W: Vaasa spirit shaman?

SK: No.

W: Kara-turan carved scrolls?

SK: No, sir.

W: You do have some Magic Missile scrolls, do you?

SK: Of course, sir. It's a scroll shop, sir. We've got .....

W: No, no, don't tell me. I'm keen to guess.

SK: Fair enough.

W: Er, Merlin?

SK: Yes?

W: Ah, well, I'll have one of those.

SK: Oh, I thought you were talking to me, sir. Mr Merlin, that's my name.

(pause)

W: Mulhorand?

SK: Ah, not as such.

W: Er, Gorgon-blood?

SK: No.

W: Aundair?

SK: No.

W: Tenser?

SK: No.

W: Blipdoolploop?

SK: No.

W: Sigilian Fated?

SK: No.

W: Karnnathi skeleton-mage?

SK: No.

W: Xendriki lizardfolk?

SK: Not today, sir, no.

(pause)

W: Ah, how about WotC Standard?

SK: Well, we don't get much call for it around here, sir.

W: Not much ca- It's the single most popular spell in the world!

SK: Not round here, sir.

W: And what is the most popular spell round here?

SK: Illefarn, sir.

W: Is it.

SK: Oh yes, sir. It's staggeringly popular in this manor, squire.

W: Is it.

SK: It's our number-one best seller, sir.

W: I see. Ah, Illefarn, eh?

SK: Right, sir.

W: All right. Okay. Have you got any, he asked expecting the answer no?

SK: I'll have a look, sir ..... nnnnnnooooooooo.

W: It's not much of a scroll shop, is it?

SK: Finest in the district, sir.

W: Explain the logic underlying that conclusion, please.

SK: Well, it's so clean, sir.

W: It's certainly uncontaminated by scrolls.

SK: You haven't asked me about Alaundo, sir.

W: Is it worth it?

SK: Could be.

W: Have you- SHUT THAT BLOODY BOUZOUKI UP!

SK: (To dancers) Told you so.

W: Have you got any Alaundo?

SK: No.

W: That figures. Predictable really, I suppose. It was an act of purest optimism to have posed the question in the first place. Tell me:

SK: Yes, sir?

W: Have you in fact got any scrolls here at all?

SK: Yes, sir.

W: Really?

(pause)

SK: No. Not really, sir.

W: You haven't.

SK: No, sir, not a scrap. I was deliberately wasting your time, sir.

W: Well, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to summon a demon into your pants.

SK: Right-O, sir.

W: (Summons demon) What a senseless waste of human life.[/sblock]

 

[Rystil Arden]

I am just wondering but is this stated or clarified anywhere?

It is done so incidentally--WotC suggested somewhere taking a level of Sorcerer to be able to use those wands and scrolls.

 

[Dimwhit]

It comes from this statement: "Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard."

There's really no other way to parse that then, "... are no longer considered to be on his or her class spell list."

Sure there is:

"Wizards can no longer cast spells from the prohibited school."

I would add to that: "Even from another class."