DarkKestral
First Post
Cheiromancer said:
Actually, I'd suggest instead trying to find a creature with that as a SLA, and making a simulacrum of that creature and a noble djinn. Free Wish and infinite armies for you!
Simulacrum questions
- Thread starter justinsluder
- Start date
Actually, I'd suggest instead trying to find a creature with that as a SLA, and making a simulacrum of that creature and a noble djinn. Free Wish and infinite armies for you!
Cheiromancer
Adventurer
DarkKestral said:
Cool idea! But noble djinn are freed of their servitude after granting the third wish- wouldn't that mean that the simulacrum becomes free willed? Although I suppose the third wish could be to create a simulacrum of itself. A legal way of wishing for more wishes.
Hmmm. I suspect the spell is irretrievably broken.
DarkKestral
First Post
Cheiromancer said:
Nope. The simulacrum is always under the control of the caster. And since it's a simulacrum made by a simulacrum, it will always be under control of another who happens to be under your complete control. So yeah, it's a legal way of Wishing for more Wishes.
EDIT:
Pyrex said:
Actually, it was solely for the free wish function that I suggested making a simulacrum of a noble djinn, though a noble djinn can wish-simulate the spell for 0 xp cost. Remember.. free armies and free wishes, starting at 13th level, for the low, low price of 1000 xp, and for a wizard, 350gp + inscribing costs (and after that, free!) No crafting feats necessary, and entirely core!
Last edited:
Jack Simth
First Post
Do note that the DM is perfectly free to nix that as desired, Core RAW, due to a simple line in Simulacrum: "It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only one-half of the real creature’s levels or Hit Dice (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD)." (emphasis added)DarkKestral said:
If the DM thinks that an infinite wish chain by way of Simulacrum will break the game, it doesn't happen - Wish/Simulacrum is simply not on the list of appropriate special abilities for a creature of that type and HD. Easy as pie.
DarkKestral
First Post
Jack, the one problem is that noble djinn, by RAW, don't get wish due to levels. It is rather an innate SLA that is not tied to level, but by the condition of being a noble Djinn, which carries with it 2 extra HD and Wish as a SLA.
So while a PC might have abilities tied to level, the noble Djinni doesn't. It has them as racial abilities. So while it may be poor in direct power, the Wish function still works.
But we're talking RAW here.
So while a PC might have abilities tied to level, the noble Djinni doesn't. It has them as racial abilities. So while it may be poor in direct power, the Wish function still works.
But we're talking RAW here.
Jack Simth
First Post
We are talking RAW here. The line in Simulacrum does not actually require that the abilities be based on Level or Hit Dice; just whether or not they are appropriate for a creature with that level or Hit Dice. It is not appropriate for a creature with 5 Hit Dice to have Wish as a Spell-Like ability. There's a lot of flex for the DM in the Simulacrum spell.DarkKestral said:
frankthedm
First Post
You entered Epic at 200k. That multiplies the cost x10. For six million GP, I'd say it sounds reasonable.justinsluder said:
DrunkonDuty
he/him
Back in the dark ages (1e) I ran a game in which an important NPC wizard was a simulacrum. (The PC's never knew this, campaign finished too soon.) IIRC, the spell description back then mentioned that they had (or could develop?) free will and a tendency to be a bit cracked it not out-right mental. (Hence NPC called Ulmrik the Mad.) Oh and simulacrum was always a copy of the wizard, not any old tissue sample they were able to find.
I ran it, I should say 'he,' as a free-willed being with his own personality that was distinct from, if not entirely unrelated to, the personality of the wizard who'd created him. I was somewhat influenced by the Jack Vance story 'Lyonesse' in which a a simulacrum was in fact a (slightly cracked) character in its own right and not a mere automaton.
And in terms of did they need food, sleep, etc: Yes. Every bit as much as whoever created them (and if created by a Lich et. al., then every bit as much as when the Lich was alive.)
I would rule that they lack a soul and thus cannot be raised if killed but can be healed as they have normal bodies.
Not a very crunchy answer but hope it helps.
I ran it, I should say 'he,' as a free-willed being with his own personality that was distinct from, if not entirely unrelated to, the personality of the wizard who'd created him. I was somewhat influenced by the Jack Vance story 'Lyonesse' in which a a simulacrum was in fact a (slightly cracked) character in its own right and not a mere automaton.
And in terms of did they need food, sleep, etc: Yes. Every bit as much as whoever created them (and if created by a Lich et. al., then every bit as much as when the Lich was alive.)
I would rule that they lack a soul and thus cannot be raised if killed but can be healed as they have normal bodies.
Not a very crunchy answer but hope it helps.
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