Simulacrum questions

[Maldor]

You entered Epic at 200k. That multiplies the cost x10. For six million GP, I'd say it sounds reasonable.

where did you get the 200k rule from i have never seen it and know of more then a couple of none epic items that cost more then 200k

 

[werk]

where did you get the 200k rule from i have never seen it and know of more then a couple of none epic items that cost more then 200k

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/basics.htm

"In general, an item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item."

from the list-
"Has a market price above 200,000 gp, not including material costs for armor or weapons, material component- or experience point-based costs, or additional value for intelligent items. "

It does have some verbiage about the x10 cost multiplier, but that's for "If the item gives a bonus beyond the limit allowed in for normal, nonepic magic items..."


But I have honestly tried my best to completely ignore the existance of the published epic rules.

 

[DarkKestral]

We are talking RAW here. The line in Simulacrum does not actually require that the abilities be based on Level or Hit Dice; just whether or not they are appropriate for a creature with that level or Hit Dice. It is not appropriate for a creature with 5 Hit Dice to have Wish as a Spell-Like ability. There's a lot of flex for the DM in the Simulacrum spell.

I don't think there is. Because if we generalize to 'any ability appropriate to a creature of HD X, then we have to determine what is 'appropriate'. And in this case, I'm fairly sure the direct RAW argument would be "If it's not directly tied to level/HD advancement, then it is considered appropriate to that race." So as far as any racial abilities based on HD, we can say that a given ability will only be possessed by the simulacrum if it has the necessary HD. If it has it for being what it is, and is not also tied to HD, then it will have it regardless. An example for the first would be the racial SLAs of a tiefling. The second type would be the Summon Demon SLA of a succubus. It can summon demons because it is a succubus, not because it is a X HD succubus.

So I think your argument's not entirely valid for the RAW. I could be wrong. We'd need Hypersmurf or a Sage argument to fully clarify. However, I don't think I'd allow noble djinni into my game unless they have 20+ HD just because of the wish factor.

 

[darthkilmor]

If the DM thinks that an infinite wish chain by way of Simulacrum will break the game, it doesn't happen - Wish/Simulacrum is simply not on the list of appropriate special abilities for a creature of that type and HD. Easy as pie.

I'd say, let it happen. Give him however many wishes he can get away with before being swarmed by Inevitables (which one is it that goes after wish-users?).

 

[Maldor]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/basics.htm

"In general, an item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item."

from the list-
"Has a market price above 200,000 gp, not including material costs for armor or weapons, material component- or experience point-based costs, or additional value for intelligent items. "

It does have some verbiage about the x10 cost multiplier, but that's for "If the item gives a bonus beyond the limit allowed in for normal, nonepic magic items..."


But I have honestly tried my best to completely ignore the existance of the published epic rules.

so it is not epic because it's price is mostly experience piont-based cost
(13x7)x2000 = 182,000 + what ever it is

 

[Jack Simth]

I don't think there is. Because if we generalize to 'any ability appropriate to a creature of HD X, then we have to determine what is 'appropriate'. And in this case, I'm fairly sure the direct RAW argument would be "If it's not directly tied to level/HD advancement, then it is considered appropriate to that race." So as far as any racial abilities based on HD, we can say that a given ability will only be possessed by the simulacrum if it has the necessary HD. If it has it for being what it is, and is not also tied to HD, then it will have it regardless. An example for the first would be the racial SLAs of a tiefling. The second type would be the Summon Demon SLA of a succubus. It can summon demons because it is a succubus, not because it is a X HD succubus.

So I think your argument's not entirely valid for the RAW. I could be wrong. We'd need Hypersmurf or a Sage argument to fully clarify. However, I don't think I'd allow noble djinni into my game unless they have 20+ HD just because of the wish factor.

It's entirely valid for the RAW because it's extremely vaguely worded, leaving a lot up to DM call. The intent might very well be what you think - simply remove feats, skills, and anything specifically dependent on HD/level - but what little was actually written in the spell description is subject to a lot of interpretation. Sure, on the character optimization boards your Wizard-13 with Eschew Materials can spend 1,100 gp and 1,100 xp to get a Solar with Wish (and Permanency, and Greater Restoration, and Resurrection, and Heal, and several other very useful things) as Spell-Like abilities, that casts as a Cleric-20, with DR 15/Evil and Epic, and Regeneration 15/Evil and Epic, Evil spells (as none of it is specifically tied to either level or HD in the monster description). As written, though, the DM gets to assign whatever seems appropriate to an 11 HD Solar.

Oh - and you can create a Simulacrum of a critter of up to twice your caster level - so that Wiz-13 with an Orange Prism Ioun Stone can make a duplicate of a 28 HD critter (the duplicate comes out as a 14 HD critter). That Cleric-20 with an Orange Prism Ioun Stone and a Bead of Karma duplicating the spell by way of Miracle can manage a 50 HD critter (although the duplicate will only have 25 HD). Oh yeah - and the Terrasque only has 48 Hit Dice (so for a 9th level slot, 2,400 gp, and 2,400 xp, you CAN have a pet Terrasque at 18th level, Core RAW, although it'll only have 24 HD - that's still a pretty impressive monster, if it keeps all it's abilities).