the Jester
Legend
Hmm, I like this idea except for the saving throw issue, i.e. take four of these classes and you net a +8 (or more) to your saves.
Single-Level Flavor (heh!) Classes
- Thread starter TeeSeeJay
- Start date
haiiro
First Post
the Jester said:
That does seem like an important issue to address, particularly without multiclassing penalties to balance it out.
I'm pretty sure Drawmack was joking, but I do think these flavor classes are quite different from kits -- if only because they can be integrated into the class/level system (not tacked on haphazardly like kits).
Frostmarrow: I agree that having all flavor classes provide "lifelong" class skills is a good idea. It helps to distinguish them from core classes and PrCs (and legendary classes, I'd imagine), and it's a pretty neat ability overall. It would also help to unify the idea -- just like all PrCs have a requirement, all flavor classes provide that boost (I'm not comparing the two, just making an observation).
Iron_Chef
First Post
I was suggesting in my previous posts that everyone could freely take one flavor class without multiclassing penalties but taking more than one would count as regular multiclassing. In this way, someone could take 4 of them getting +8 to saves but they would also get like a -60% XP penalty which few are crazy enough to do. Since flavor classes cannot be kept anywhere near even (being only 1 level) with core classes, the PC taking so many flavor classes will eventually suffer a gruesome XP penalty as a result of being so unfocused, even if he does have an impressive array of low powered abilities. "Jack of all trades, master of none" and all that! 
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Iron_Chef
First Post
THE GLADIATOR (Flavor Class)
BAB: +1
HD: d10
Saves: Fortitude +1, Reflex +1, Will +0.
Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate. These become class skills regardless of class.
Skill Points: 2 + Int mod.
Weapons & Armor: The gladiator is proficient with all simple and martial weapons (except bows), light armor and shields.
Class Abilities:
Exotic Weapon Master (ex): The gladiator gains the exotic weapon proficiency in any one exotic weapon of his choice, which is considered his "trademark" weapon in the mind of the crowd.
Center of Attention (ex): If there one or more sentient creatures watching him fight (and not participating in the battle themselves), the gladiator receives a +2 circumstance bonus to attack and damage rolls.
Permanent Skills (ex): Your class skills remain class skills regardless of class.
_________________________
NOTES: I got the idea (and most of the mechanics) from the Kalamar Player's Guide, which had this as a core class. The only problem was, it was front-loaded and there was no point taking it past first level, like the PHB ranger. I toned down its saves from Fort +2/Ref +2 and made them both +1, as I thought that two +2 saves was a little too high for a one level flavor class. Opinions?
BAB: +1
HD: d10
Saves: Fortitude +1, Reflex +1, Will +0.
Class Skills: Bluff, Intimidate. These become class skills regardless of class.
Skill Points: 2 + Int mod.
Weapons & Armor: The gladiator is proficient with all simple and martial weapons (except bows), light armor and shields.
Class Abilities:
Exotic Weapon Master (ex): The gladiator gains the exotic weapon proficiency in any one exotic weapon of his choice, which is considered his "trademark" weapon in the mind of the crowd.
Center of Attention (ex): If there one or more sentient creatures watching him fight (and not participating in the battle themselves), the gladiator receives a +2 circumstance bonus to attack and damage rolls.
Permanent Skills (ex): Your class skills remain class skills regardless of class.
_________________________
NOTES: I got the idea (and most of the mechanics) from the Kalamar Player's Guide, which had this as a core class. The only problem was, it was front-loaded and there was no point taking it past first level, like the PHB ranger. I toned down its saves from Fort +2/Ref +2 and made them both +1, as I thought that two +2 saves was a little too high for a one level flavor class. Opinions?
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Iron_Chef
First Post
THE DECEIVER (Flavor Class)
This flavor class is a little less specific in its nature than most, but can be used to represent any swindler/con man, schemer, spy, gold-digger or lothario. Basically anyone who makes a living by deceiving others of their true intentions.
BAB: +0
HD: d6
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +2
Class Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Intimidate, Sense Motive. These become class skills regardless of class.
Skill Points: 6 + Int mod.
Class Abilities:
Quick Tongue, Clever Mind: The deceiver is practiced in the art of manipulating others and reading their emotions. She gains a +6 competence bonus she can split any she wants between Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate and Sense Motive. She can put the bonus all into one skill or divide it up as she sees fit.
Permanent Skills (ex): Your class skills remain class skills regardless of class.
_______________________
NOTES: I got the idea from the Kalamar Player's Guide's Brigand core class (another one it was kind of useless to take past 1st level), but then used the Mindbender PrC from T&B as the basis for the Class Ability, as Kalamar gave out 4 free ranks in Bluff and I thought a bonus to be used between various skills essential to the flavor class concept would be better and also not interfere with a character who already has maxed out his Bluff ranks, and therefore would gain nothing by taking a level of Deceiver... Opinions?
This flavor class is a little less specific in its nature than most, but can be used to represent any swindler/con man, schemer, spy, gold-digger or lothario. Basically anyone who makes a living by deceiving others of their true intentions.
BAB: +0
HD: d6
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +2
Class Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Intimidate, Sense Motive. These become class skills regardless of class.
Skill Points: 6 + Int mod.
Class Abilities:
Quick Tongue, Clever Mind: The deceiver is practiced in the art of manipulating others and reading their emotions. She gains a +6 competence bonus she can split any she wants between Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate and Sense Motive. She can put the bonus all into one skill or divide it up as she sees fit.
Permanent Skills (ex): Your class skills remain class skills regardless of class.
_______________________
NOTES: I got the idea from the Kalamar Player's Guide's Brigand core class (another one it was kind of useless to take past 1st level), but then used the Mindbender PrC from T&B as the basis for the Class Ability, as Kalamar gave out 4 free ranks in Bluff and I thought a bonus to be used between various skills essential to the flavor class concept would be better and also not interfere with a character who already has maxed out his Bluff ranks, and therefore would gain nothing by taking a level of Deceiver... Opinions?
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SylverFlame
First Post
If you're worried about balancing the saving throws then just go simple. Only have a single +1 to any saving throw, and only one saving throw gets it. Not a bad deal if you think about. Take a class, don't get hit with the XP penalty and get a +1 to a saving throw that may not be your best (hello wizard Legionaire ). Seems balanced to me. Then you just start adding the penalties to XP after the first class (as originally suggested). Stems the tide of multi-classing into many flavour classes (a +1 is only worth so much).
Besides, since these things are mostly flavour then getting a relatively blah bonus is not a big deal IMHO.
). Seems balanced to me. Then you just start adding the penalties to XP after the first class (as originally suggested). Stems the tide of multi-classing into many flavour classes (a +1 is only worth so much).Besides, since these things are mostly flavour then getting a relatively blah bonus is not a big deal IMHO.
Iron_Chef
First Post
Um, ouch!
Nobody wants to only get a +1 bonus to one save when they take a class, though. No core class or PrC does the +1 to one save only that you suggest because no one would want to take a level in it, even for flavor... I don't want to underpower them.
Thanks for the input, though! I'm glad you think the idea of introducing flavor classes worth thinking about it and commenting on.
Nobody wants to only get a +1 bonus to one save when they take a class, though. No core class or PrC does the +1 to one save only that you suggest because no one would want to take a level in it, even for flavor... I don't want to underpower them.
Thanks for the input, though! I'm glad you think the idea of introducing flavor classes worth thinking about it and commenting on.
Re: Um, ouch!
Me too.
Probably later tonight I'll have some writeups for my campaign-specific flavor classes up to fish for feedback.
Iron_Chef said:
Thanks for the input, though! I'm glad you think the idea of introducing flavor classes worth thinking about it and commenting on.
Me too.
Probably later tonight I'll have some writeups for my campaign-specific flavor classes up to fish for feedback.
Iron_Chef
First Post
Stripping saves would defeat the purpose entirely. Nobody would take a class that doesn't bump up their saves because bad saves=bad things happen to your PC more frequently. No amount of flavor is worth depowering your character in the deadly games I run.
TANGENT:
It kinda sucks that the number of feats you can get are so limited but there are thousands of them out there. It would be nice if you could afford to take some weak feats for flavor, but most of us can't have that luxury and only take weak feats if it's a PrC requirement. Otherwise, it borders on suicidal. Even when we introduced flaws in exchange for feats (2 flaws=1 feat), nobody took weak feats, just more of the powerful ones.
If weak feats could be incorporated into a "crappy feats" section and everybody got some, then they'd see use. Otherwise, forget it. Endurance, Run, etc., are all terrible wastes of a feat slot, as are metamagics until you reach high levels. And don't get me started on Skill Focus and Toughness...
TANGENT:
It kinda sucks that the number of feats you can get are so limited but there are thousands of them out there. It would be nice if you could afford to take some weak feats for flavor, but most of us can't have that luxury and only take weak feats if it's a PrC requirement. Otherwise, it borders on suicidal. Even when we introduced flaws in exchange for feats (2 flaws=1 feat), nobody took weak feats, just more of the powerful ones.
If weak feats could be incorporated into a "crappy feats" section and everybody got some, then they'd see use. Otherwise, forget it. Endurance, Run, etc., are all terrible wastes of a feat slot, as are metamagics until you reach high levels. And don't get me started on Skill Focus and Toughness...
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