Single women gamers

[incognito]

...about to alienate 97% of the female readers

Ok,

I lurked and I lurked...and having read 6 pages, I guess I have to add to this thread.

Seems like females at the gaming table ends up being an all or nothing type thing. You find a woman who has amiable female friends who game and everyone is adult with it, and it makes for enjoyable gaming. It seems this way with PirateCat's group - and when I met him, I commented on this very fact.

My exposure to female gamers (and females at faires), has not been the greatest. The female gamers were manipulative, boyfriend chasers, ruining a few good games. The girls in the faire should have been trotting on the treadmill, rather than exposing yards of pale, oversized, cleavage.

Sigh:: that was pretty harsh - more trash talking to come, I'm afraid:

Ok, so although I am an avid gamer, I am also a very fitness oriented (amusingly, I would only meet PC for coffee after obsessively going to the gym!). Rather than being a socially challenged, I somewhat shamefully admit to being more of the 'player' type or whatever people are calling it these days.

Never at the gaming table though - because the girls I went after - well - I never let on that I gamed. It was not a part of my 'rap' so to speak (Hey, baby, have you seen my d20?) The girlfriends I have had, eventually found out about my little hobby, but it never seemed appropriate to try and get them caught up in the gaming circle. Too much of a disconnect.

Perhaps I simply came of age during some very negative propaganda regarding gaming (late 80's), but I think by far and large gaming is looked down on by the 'cool' click. Since I want to be able to run with that group periodically, I keep my gaming to myself. I'm not in the closet exactly, but I'm not totally out of it either.

Now - I find it highly entertaining that some of the very attractive women who have been brave enough to post their pictures here, are annoyed by the way men react to them (in a physical fashion). This has little to do with gaming, and much to do with how men are wired.

I cannot imagine a gaming table that has mixed gender yet is devoid of a *little* sexual tension - in fact, that seems not quite healthy to me. Even in the workplace there is sexual tension. Our VP of sales just got canned for his immature reaction to some of it.

Pretty women, no matter their hobby, will always be in demand - we men should be thankful that ladies look more to personality than us men do.

Hmmm - ok, end of rant. I'll close by saying if I ever did bump into a cool, attractive (yes, this is important), down to earth girl who could game, and still Salsa dance with me - well, I'd have to count myself very lucky indeed.

 

[SemperJase]

Buttercup, on this one, we agree 100% .
I fell head over heels with my girlfriend without really knowing exactly what she looked liked, based on her personality alone . And thankfully for me as well... since I'm not exactly Mr. Hansome, lol.

I find this conversation interesting. As the token moral absolutist on the board you may think I would agree 100%.

Acutally, I think physical attraction is very important to a relationship. Now that does not rule out respecting the other person's dignity. By that I agree with Buttercup that you must get to know the whole person. But the decision to start that process on both sides generally begins with that first flicker of physical attaction.

I think it is interesting what happens from the point where you start to find out more about that person. Once you begin to know a person, your perception of their attractiveness changes with your feelings about them. Even the prom queen looks looses her attraciveness to guys she treats with contempt. While someone you may have thought was "alright" looking gets prettier when you realize her generous nature. In other words, what you find on the inside comes through to the outside in your eyes.

Thoughts?

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I'm sure a good deal of it was... but it's not my point. The point I was trying to make is that too often society portrays men as dim-witted and with no self control... and I don't think that fits the truth. The sexual impulses of men and women are different... the self control required to control that impulse in men is different then it is in women.

No offense, but this sounds suspiciously like the excuse a lot of men use for nothing more than poor impulse control.

Sort of a combination of "Women don't think about sex as much because they don't like it as much" and "Boys will be boys."

That's a load. Aside from the lack of physiologic support for it, the fact is that not all guys have trouble controlling their impulses.

I, for example, happen to be a guy, yet I have better impulse control when it comes to keeping my eyes off a woman's breasts than I do when it comes to stopping myself from buying a new book. This doesn't mean I suffer less from testosterone effects than other men. It means I don't buy the B.S. from our over-sexed culture that says guys are allowed to run around with their tongues hanging out whenever an attractive woman walks into the room.

Our culture still punishes women a lot more than men for having poor control in this area. It WAS getting better, but now that the culture of victimhood is in full swing, irresponsible guys are finding new and better ways to excuse their lack of control.

It does not take an "iron tower of will" to keep your eyes of a woman's chest. And guys who have that much trouble DO have poor self-control.

 

[kenjib]

I think people should live honestly and openly. For me, beauty comes with the grace of being comfortable with who you are how you look, no matter whether it fits certain stereotypes or not. Preoccupation with trying to be something you are not is just another form of ugliness to me, no matter the end result. The longer I know someone, the more (or less) beautiful they become to me.

It's great that all kinds of women can feel confident about how they look and enjoy themselves. Men have a much wider variety of preference than some people think. For me, being thin just is not an important aspect of beauty at all, for example. I think all types of bodies can be beautiful. Many men like many different things.

That goes for women too, all of you self-deprecating men. Stop insulting yourselves! What's up with that?

I think it's pretty sad that anyone would discourage someone from having a healthy self image and feeling good about themself. As Ms. Yvonne (from Pee Wee's Playhouse) says, "You're only as beautiful as you feel, and I feel WONDERFUL!" If you have this attitude, people will pick up on it and respond. You will be beautiful.

Okay, to get back more on topic, I haven't seen many women playing the game, myself. I wonder if it has to do with recruitment method at all. Are women gamers more likely to find games in certain ways? Through anonymous message board/in store recruitment posts? Through friends? Through gamer networking? Does this change depending on whether the game groups are in college or working age?

 

[DrydenT]

RE: The NPR Thing

I listen to This American Life every week and heard the mentioned story about the testosterone based sex-change. It's a heck of a listen that i recommend to anybody if they have the time and a good enough connection.

The page where a story summary is listed along with the link to the Real Audio version of the story (sorry, only format they've got).
http://www.thislife.org/pages/archive02.html#220

If you want to dive right into listening, use this link.
http://www.thislife.org/ra/220.ram

The story in question is Act II, or about 15-16 minutes into the show. If you've got time, just listen right from the beginning. It's good stuff and surprisingly relevent given the turn this conversation has taken.

[Relurking]

Dry

 

[Humanophile]

Hah. Incognito, you sound like a friend of mine, and his attitude confuses me. While I do remember him losing one girlfriend after bringing her to a D&D game, I think that was more due to trying to swamp her with rules and the actions of a certain other player than it was the fact that he gamed. I know of a few other girlfriends of his who found out, and didn't seem to give him trouble about it. So if the girl has a redeeming personality and isn't just there for a few dates and such, there's nothing to lose by letting her know that you game. Heck, I'm open about my gaming habit, and it's never caused me problems. (Well, it did once, but that was because I invited her to a vampire LARP I was playing in, she got really into it and ended up doing some between game with a clanmate, and by next week they were an item. But I digress...)

Everyone else: The reason most discussions of this sort tend to revolve around looks is because little else is as immediate. Humans in general are wired to reproduce, we're social animals, and between the desire to propogate and the desire to spend time with others, there will be some form of tension between compatible people. Personalities take time to fully understand, and in many cases a person isn't thinking long term. Even if they are, something has to pull them in initially in order to understand the personality. I don't actually *know* any of the girls posting here, so while I can't say anything about their personalities, I can say all I need to about appearances in a few seconds time. So I can either say "wow, she's cute", or "well, I hope she has a nice personality". And to be blunt, nobody has the time to spend checking everyone they see on the hopes of finding a good personality.

And as personal comment, I have odd luck. Despite being exclusively attracted to geeky girls, I haven't dated gamer girls ever since I learned better. That said, I have an almost unerring eye for gals who are gamer naturals. I just either end up screwing things up with them in other ways before I can get them around a table, or else they're too far away. Still, you'd be surprised the number of good-looking females I've known who've told me that they've always wanted to game, they just hadn't found a group. So gamer girls shouldn't be that hard to find; just make your own. And as time goes by, enough of them will end up as single gamer girls.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

That goes for women too, all of you self-deprecating men. Stop insulting yourselves! What's up with that?

Just 'cause we're self-deprecating doesn't mean we have low self-esteem. Quite the contrary in my case.

My face may be made for wear, rather than show, but woe betide the person who makes a judgement based on that.

Besides, my face must be doing its job since I managed the initial attraction that SemperJase was talking about to nab my girlfriend. A brilliant, fun, beautiful woman, with whom I share a love of reading, fantasy, and computer games, along with, not incidentally, my heart and soul.

So, while I may be self-deprecating regarding my looks, I'm actually pretty comfortable with them, and I have no actual complaints.

 

[blackshirt5]

Thanx for everybody's suggestions, I've decided to cash in on the fact that Elizabeth loves horror and suspense(she's a huge fan of Poe) and introduce her to gaming through Call of Cthulhu D20.

Also, to add in my .02 cents here, I have to concur with an earlier poster that women don't give themselves enough credit when it comes to their bodies. I used to go out with a girl who always said that she thought I could do so much better than her because she was a little chubby(I'm no prize myself, I just carry myself very well). Eventually, my having to constantly reassure her was one of the things that led to our breakup, because I eventually got tired of having to tell her constantly(not that I mind giving out compliments, but come on!) that I thought she was beautiful. Thankfully, I found Elizabeth again, and now I'm happily dating a girl with whom the only argument we have is about Ralph Fiennes(he creeps me out now that I've seen Red Dragon); and more importantly, a girl who's comfortable in her own body!

The moral of this rambling post: Complain about yourself too much, and eventually, other people start believing your own hype!

 

[Qlippoth]

I, for example, happen to be a guy, yet I have better impulse control when it comes to keeping my eyes off a woman's breasts than I do when it comes to stopping myself from buying a new book. This doesn't mean I suffer less from testosterone effects than other men. It means I don't buy the B.S. from our over-sexed culture that says guys are allowed to run around with their tongues hanging out whenever an attractive woman walks into the room.

Amen!

 

[Telgian]

[Aside]
I can't recall where I read this offhand, so it is possible that some error has crept in, but...

It's intresting to note that at one point in the middle ages women were viewed as morally weaker than men. Why, because they were the ones with aggression and no control. Middle aged women were viewed as being the most threatening -- almost predatoral when it came to young men.

[/Aside]

Telgian.
SFG.