Dragongirl
First Post
MerakSpielman said:
No offense taken. I was DradonLady before, but then that sounded like an S&M Mistress, and while I like to tie guys up, I am not into all that, so changed to DragonGirl
Single women gamers
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No offense taken. I was DradonLady before, but then that sounded like an S&M Mistress, and while I like to tie guys up, I am not into all that, so changed to DragonGirl
Jeremy Ackerman-Yost
Explorer
Telgian said:
Very true. It was the same in traditional Japanese society. Women weren't even permitted in any but the lowest of the heavens. I don't know about other Eastern societies, but...
Ever since Eve, Western society has been almost abusive in their insistence that men are the virtuous ones. I'm not sure when we reversed that, but it's a recent innovation, that has NO previous cultural OR biological basis.
Actually, it might have been the troubadours and courtly love that pulled the switch. That's approximately when it became fashionable for women to hide their emotions from their suitors. AND it's when men became encouraged to go wax rhapsodic about how much they "needed" their intended (both in the emotional and carnal senses. If you don't believe me, read some poetry from the era. It's hot stuff.)
Jeremy Ackerman-Yost
Explorer
OK. You guys who were giving people grief over flirting with Dragongirl, look at this.
Veiled innuendo that is guaranteed to engender intrigue. But it would be socially inappropriate to to push for clarification (especially if Boothbey is still hanging around with that sword - Canis looks around with trepidation)
How does one NOT flirt a little?
And, YES, I'm aware that I was the guy going on and on about self-control. Chalk it up to irony.
Dragongirl said:
Veiled innuendo that is guaranteed to engender intrigue. But it would be socially inappropriate to to push for clarification (especially if Boothbey is still hanging around with that sword - Canis looks around with trepidation)
How does one NOT flirt a little?
And, YES, I'm aware that I was the guy going on and on about self-control. Chalk it up to irony.
Buttercup
Princess of Florin
Re: ...about to alienate 97% of the female readers
No different than many of the men, I would guess, yet it is socially more acceptable to denigrate women if you don't approve of their body type. And you know, maybe they were happy being Rubenesque, and maybe their men liked them that way.
Are you saying that other people have to meet your physical standards to be treated with respect? And by 'player' do you mean philanderer? User? Or schmoozer? I honestly don't know how you mean it.
That's interesting. I've always thought of myself as 'cool', and I game. But this issue of worrying about what others think of D&D has come up on these boards a great deal lately, and it seems I'm in the minority since I don't really care if certain segments of society don't approve of me.
I haven't noticed any of the women who posted their pictures being annoyed about the reactions those pics elicited. I was the one who said it annoys me when I try to have a conversation with someone who stares at my chest. I haven't posted my picture. In fact, in the picture thread, (it's archived) where I did post my picture, I took care to use one that didn't show my face. Perhaps I'm paranoid, but I harbor no illusions that this community is a private room.
I guess it's a good thing we don't game together then. And it's even better that we don't work together. I work with men and women, sitting on committees together, working on joint projects, supervising and being supervised. In the past 10 years, I only recall one instance of a guy who tried to sexualize everything. I thought he was an annoying jerk, actually. The rest of the guys I work with just get down to business, as do I.
The thing that I think isn't healthy is the notion that men and women cannot be friends or coworkers without sex entering into the picture.
incognito said:
No different than many of the men, I would guess, yet it is socially more acceptable to denigrate women if you don't approve of their body type. And you know, maybe they were happy being Rubenesque, and maybe their men liked them that way.
Are you saying that other people have to meet your physical standards to be treated with respect? And by 'player' do you mean philanderer? User? Or schmoozer? I honestly don't know how you mean it.
That's interesting. I've always thought of myself as 'cool', and I game. But this issue of worrying about what others think of D&D has come up on these boards a great deal lately, and it seems I'm in the minority since I don't really care if certain segments of society don't approve of me.
I haven't noticed any of the women who posted their pictures being annoyed about the reactions those pics elicited. I was the one who said it annoys me when I try to have a conversation with someone who stares at my chest. I haven't posted my picture. In fact, in the picture thread, (it's archived) where I did post my picture, I took care to use one that didn't show my face. Perhaps I'm paranoid, but I harbor no illusions that this community is a private room.
I guess it's a good thing we don't game together then. And it's even better that we don't work together. I work with men and women, sitting on committees together, working on joint projects, supervising and being supervised. In the past 10 years, I only recall one instance of a guy who tried to sexualize everything. I thought he was an annoying jerk, actually. The rest of the guys I work with just get down to business, as do I.
The thing that I think isn't healthy is the notion that men and women cannot be friends or coworkers without sex entering into the picture.
William Ronald
Explorer
Having lurked on this thread and seeing it run from the silly to the serious, I thought I would make a few comments.
Currently, there is a single female gamer in my group. My best friend's sister whom I have known for 20 years. She is a friend who is a good role player, good at problem solving, and in getting people to form a concensus.
I have not had any gamer girl friends, but there have been several memorable female players I have known. One was a very good role player who would shoot down some of the flirting guys were doing with female NPCs. (For the record, Judith was one of the few 50 something gamers I have played with. The players were in their 20s. Let's say I enjoyed how she reigned in some of the PCs by pulling rank on the NPCs... and reminding the players that we were on a mission, not taking a romantic pleasure cruise.)
I have known many good female gamers, as well as a few who were just there because their boyfriends were around. I think the most important issue is to treat a female gamer with the respect and courtesy you would wish for yourself.
I have noticed a few guys at conventions who seem to have little idea of how to act around women. However, I have noticed more women gamers at cons and more men acting properly towards them. A man can look at a beautiful woman and still be a gentleman after all. I have chatted with women who were in the costume contest at Gen Con and not drooled. (In fact, I directed one this past Gen Con to the Milwaukee Journal to get a copy of an article she had been interviewed for during the previous week.)
Dragongirl, nice picture. Ladyofdragons, nice picture and a good out fit.
So, I have a few questions for the women on the boards. What are some of the ways that men can make role playing more accessible and enjoyable to women? Also, how has gaming and the gaming environment changed for women since you started playing RPGs?
Currently, there is a single female gamer in my group. My best friend's sister whom I have known for 20 years. She is a friend who is a good role player, good at problem solving, and in getting people to form a concensus.
I have not had any gamer girl friends, but there have been several memorable female players I have known. One was a very good role player who would shoot down some of the flirting guys were doing with female NPCs. (For the record, Judith was one of the few 50 something gamers I have played with. The players were in their 20s. Let's say I enjoyed how she reigned in some of the PCs by pulling rank on the NPCs... and reminding the players that we were on a mission, not taking a romantic pleasure cruise.)
I have known many good female gamers, as well as a few who were just there because their boyfriends were around. I think the most important issue is to treat a female gamer with the respect and courtesy you would wish for yourself.
I have noticed a few guys at conventions who seem to have little idea of how to act around women. However, I have noticed more women gamers at cons and more men acting properly towards them. A man can look at a beautiful woman and still be a gentleman after all. I have chatted with women who were in the costume contest at Gen Con and not drooled. (In fact, I directed one this past Gen Con to the Milwaukee Journal to get a copy of an article she had been interviewed for during the previous week.)
Dragongirl, nice picture. Ladyofdragons, nice picture and a good out fit.
So, I have a few questions for the women on the boards. What are some of the ways that men can make role playing more accessible and enjoyable to women? Also, how has gaming and the gaming environment changed for women since you started playing RPGs?
LostSoul
Adventurer
William Ronald said:
You know what? I think that RPGs are already quite enjoyable to women. Those of us who are immature shouldn't try and bring women into the game; I just don't think it would work. But those who are mature enough to handle someone of the opposite sex at the table (I notice that most gamer guys don't complain about being hit on, or having unwanted sexual attention at the table; probably a social thing) should encourage friends to join the game. Of whatever sex.
I wonder if a "Singles Game" could ever take off?
Dragongirl
First Post
William Ronald said:
1) Have roleplaying opportunities at least 25% of the time as opposed to 100% hack and slash.
2) Have things make sense. Don't put a dragon on the third underground level where the only access is 10x10 corridors, etc.
3) Don't move all over the place in the storyline. Storyline is important and should move smoothly from adventure to adventure.
4) DON'T HAVE WOMEN IN CHAINMAIL BIKINIS!!!
5) Don't show all NPC women as brainless bedtoys. Yes to get that historical feel most women will have more of a subservient postion concerning men, but even some commoner women can be strong minded and at least mistress of the home life.
As for what has changed.....biggest change appears to be the use of she/her instead of he/him in some products. I know this is to try to be more politically correct, but in my opinion is just annoying. Male pronouns have always been the norm for uknown persons and making every other one female just seems trite. I am all for female examples of PCs, NPCs etc, but don't stick em in just to be PC.
Just stuff from the top of my head.
boothbey
First Post
Only one that gets me in trouble is #3. 
My party has learned to fear female npcs. They are too afraid to use them as bedtoys.
"She's a vampire or a demon, I just know it."
One character married a seemingly brainless female npc who was secretly plotting to off the player, his brother, father, and take over the family estate.
My party has learned to fear female npcs. They are too afraid to use them as bedtoys.
"She's a vampire or a demon, I just know it."
One character married a seemingly brainless female npc who was secretly plotting to off the player, his brother, father, and take over the family estate.
Dragongirl
First Post
boothbey said:Only one that gets me in trouble is #3.
My party has learned to fear female npcs. They are too afraid to use them as bedtoys.
"She's a vampire or a demon, I just know it."
One character married a seemingly brainless female npc who was secretly plotting to off the player, his brother, father, and take over the family estate.
Should I be afraid that you make all your plot females domineering and evil? Wonder what Freud would think of this..... Guesss now I know why you like me.
Canis wrote:
***No offense, but this sounds suspiciously like the excuse a lot of men use for nothing more than poor impulse control.***
Not at all... I don't see how anything I said shows that. We, as human beings, do have control over our actions and are 100% accountable for them. What I am saying is that men's issues aren't as simple to deal with as some women might imagine.
***Sort of a combination of "Women don't think about sex as much because they don't like it as much" and "Boys will be boys." That's a load. Aside from the lack of physiologic support for it, the fact is that not all guys have trouble controlling their impulses. I, for example, happen to be a guy, yet I have better impulse control when it comes to keeping my eyes off a woman's breasts than I do when it comes to stopping myself from buying a new book. This doesn't mean I suffer less from testosterone effects than other men. It means I don't buy the B.S. from our over-sexed culture that says guys are allowed to run around with their tongues hanging out whenever an attractive woman walks into the room.***
Please try not to put words into my mouth, you are making a huge range of statements that I never made or even hinted at. If you wish to argue the statements you made, seek someone who supports them, I do not.
Please re-read my posts and my first response here. Additionally there is a good deal of scientific data that does support that men and women do respond to sexuallity in wholy different ways. Men are fully and completely capable of controlling their actions and sexuallity... all I am saying is that those feelings have a different impact on men then it does on women.
***Our culture still punishes women a lot more than men for having poor control in this area. It WAS getting better, but now that the culture of victimhood is in full swing, irresponsible guys are finding new and better ways to excuse their lack of control.***
Exactly whom is doing the punishing? I don't claim to be a victim or to be down-trodden or any such thing. I'm only trying to promote understanding, of at least my experiences as a male. What I find irresponsible is not trying to learn and understand those around you for the sake of political correctness. Knowledge and truth know no political correctness... they stand on their own. I don't claim to know what the truth of the situation is, but I seek it, fair or unfair as it may be.
***It does not take an "iron tower of will" to keep your eyes of a woman's chest.***
That statement was meant as a joke... I was using an exageration to get the idea across that men and women have different reactions to similar stimulus.
If this responsive was a bit agro... my apologies. Perhaps my testosterone levels are a bit up... (<-humor)
P.S.: I recommend you take a look at DrydenT posts and perhaps give that a listen... it's interesting, regardless if you agree or disagree.
***No offense, but this sounds suspiciously like the excuse a lot of men use for nothing more than poor impulse control.***
Not at all... I don't see how anything I said shows that. We, as human beings, do have control over our actions and are 100% accountable for them. What I am saying is that men's issues aren't as simple to deal with as some women might imagine.
***Sort of a combination of "Women don't think about sex as much because they don't like it as much" and "Boys will be boys." That's a load. Aside from the lack of physiologic support for it, the fact is that not all guys have trouble controlling their impulses. I, for example, happen to be a guy, yet I have better impulse control when it comes to keeping my eyes off a woman's breasts than I do when it comes to stopping myself from buying a new book. This doesn't mean I suffer less from testosterone effects than other men. It means I don't buy the B.S. from our over-sexed culture that says guys are allowed to run around with their tongues hanging out whenever an attractive woman walks into the room.***
Please try not to put words into my mouth, you are making a huge range of statements that I never made or even hinted at. If you wish to argue the statements you made, seek someone who supports them, I do not.
Please re-read my posts and my first response here. Additionally there is a good deal of scientific data that does support that men and women do respond to sexuallity in wholy different ways. Men are fully and completely capable of controlling their actions and sexuallity... all I am saying is that those feelings have a different impact on men then it does on women.
***Our culture still punishes women a lot more than men for having poor control in this area. It WAS getting better, but now that the culture of victimhood is in full swing, irresponsible guys are finding new and better ways to excuse their lack of control.***
Exactly whom is doing the punishing? I don't claim to be a victim or to be down-trodden or any such thing. I'm only trying to promote understanding, of at least my experiences as a male. What I find irresponsible is not trying to learn and understand those around you for the sake of political correctness. Knowledge and truth know no political correctness... they stand on their own. I don't claim to know what the truth of the situation is, but I seek it, fair or unfair as it may be.
***It does not take an "iron tower of will" to keep your eyes of a woman's chest.***
That statement was meant as a joke... I was using an exageration to get the idea across that men and women have different reactions to similar stimulus.
If this responsive was a bit agro... my apologies. Perhaps my testosterone levels are a bit up... (<-humor)
P.S.: I recommend you take a look at DrydenT posts and perhaps give that a listen... it's interesting, regardless if you agree or disagree.
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