Single women gamers

[RobNJ]

Eloquently put, Rob. And a good point too.

Thanks. Hopefully it will get me [hopelesswhiteguytryingtoseemhip]mad phat chix.[/hopelesswhiteguytryingtoseemhip]

One further extension of your analogy, however: If every time I see you, you offer me a gourmet meal that you happen to have on you, I'm going to associate you with food more strongly than if you cook me a meal every once in a while on special occasions.

If you're always smelling of food and--argh. Screw this.

If a woman is dressed provocatively, you can't really assume anything from it. A lack of a bra may just indicate that she doesn't feel comfortable in them. I will avoid further examples, lest I embarrass myself by revealing how little I know about women's clothing.

She has her own reasons for wearing the clothes she chooses to wear, and I don't think it's appropriate to treat her differently based on how she's dressed. I'd endeavor not to. Doesn't mean I'd succeed. I'm sure I act differently with women I find attractive than ones I don't. I don't want to, but I'm sure I do. It remains appropriate to try to treat a woman the same to the best degree you can no matter how attractive she is to you and no matter how she's dressed.

And I'm not going to say, "That's my opinion," I'm going to say, "That's what's right."

What I'm saying is that the trend in fashion is more and more toward low cut jeans that are painted on and high cut tops that are barely there. So if a woman constantly dresses in a way that draws attention to her appearance, I feel justified in paying attention to her appearance.

Depends on how you define "paying attention." There's a difference between noticing and allowing it to subtly affect your behavior and staring at boobies for 20 minutes without blinking.

All of which is not in any way to suggest that I would consider it the most important criteria in choosing who I would like to associate with.

For me, yes, I'm attracted initially to people I find physically attractive. My attraction parameters tend to focus on facial beauty rather than physical slimness (or fullness). However, the woman I fell in love with most strongly in my life had a large nose. I loved her, and I found her incredibly attractive, and that didn't matter to me (though it would have on, say, a model if I was asked to rate her physical appearance). Why? Because she was smarter than me, and hilarious, and we shared enough interests to be excited that one another liked Josie and the Pussycats: The Movie, while having divergent enough interests for me to inflict Robert Jordan on her and for her to introduce me to Bikini Kill.

 

[Mercule]

Otherwise they tend to look at you funny when you yell, "NATURAL 20!" at certain intimate moments.

Cripes!

I've been married for 7 years and gamed with my wife for longer than that. I think she'd _still_ file for divorce if I made an exclamation like that.

 

[Rel]

If a woman is dressed provocatively, you can't really assume anything from it. A lack of a bra may just indicate that she doesn't feel comfortable in them. I will avoid further examples, lest I embarrass myself by revealing how little I know about women's clothing.

Well, technically, I can assume anything I want. If she gets to dress any way she wants and go out in public, I'm allowed to draw any conclusions I want from it. I might be wrong, but so what.

And I don't think that trying to pretend that she isn't dressed in a provocative manner is "what's right". Based on what you wrote above, I should no more assume that she wants me to keep my eyes above her chin level than I should assume that she wants me to holler, "nice rack!" from across the parking lot.

I don't believe there is any great wisdom in acting like hot girls aren't hot or acting like girls who are less attractive to you are not there. The wisdom comes in understanding that comliness, nice though it may be, is only a superficial trait. That doesn't make it meaningless, but they didn't include it in 3ED&D.

Make of that what you will.

 

[Rel]

Cripes!

I've been married for 7 years and gamed with my wife for longer than that. I think she'd _still_ file for divorce if I made an exclamation like that.

Yeah, but it would still be worth it just to see the look on her face, don't you think?

 

[barsoomcore]

Meepo muttered:
If I could have my way, I'd marry Amy Winn.

I hear you, little guy, but word on the street is that if Amy had her way, she'd marry Genevieve.

Buttercup whispered:
I'm not saying that I'm offended by flirting. Far from it. But I'd like you guys to try to imagine what it's like to want to have an intellectual discussion with someone who can't stop staring at your chest.

Anyone who's idea of flirting involves staring at a woman's chest hasn't really gotten the idea quite right, wouldn't you say? Flirting is a fun, wholesome activity that engages the wit and the heart, makes the blood pump a little faster, and when done successfully leaves two people feeling good about themselves. Whether or not it involves sex in any capacity is beside the point. I have had great fun flirting with people I had no intention of ever sleeping with.

Rel mentioned:
I don't believe there is any great wisdom in acting like hot girls aren't hot or acting like girls who are less attractive to you are not there.

This was in response to RobNJ's point about treating women as well as one can regardless of the type of attire they are wearing. Here's what I say:

Rudeness is rudeness and when someone is talking to you, not paying attention is rude. For whatever reason. Likewise not taking someone seriously. It's hurtful and insulting and I believe that one should always strive to avoid being hurtful.

So if I meet a lovely woman dressed in some fashion (whatever that may be), I'll treat her just as I like. I like paying attention to people (unless they're dull) and taking them seriously (unless they're idiots). And sure, dull, idiotic but beautiful women have really only one means of entertaining me, which involves me oserving their physical beauty. And I have certainly spent time with dull idiotic but beautiful women for no purpose other than to observe their beauty.

But interesting, smart and wise women have all sorts of ways of entertaining me and enriching my life, and I would never want to cheat myself out of a potential experience by irritating such a woman when she realises I'm just leering down her shirt and paying no attention to what she's saying.

Which I think is the issue. I think when most of us realise that someone is assessing our physical attractiveness, how we respond depends entirely on what we think of that person. If that person is ignoring every word we say then we're unlikely to be much impressed. It's not the ogling, is what I'm suggesting. I think that most of us are happy to be ogled by someone who evidently likes us, takes note of what we say and at least appears to consider our happiness.

I leer at my wife constantly. I convinced her to wear her shirts unbuttoned down past her cleavage when we go to parties just so I can drool into my beer. Yeah, sure, we can go home and she can take it completely off. But there's something about that half-hidden view...

Did I get off-topic? Oh, right, so ogling = no big deal. It's respect and consideration that matter, and they don't have so much to do with ogling.

 

[RobNJ]

Something else I wanted to mention: Hormones don't do as much as people think they do, popularly.

That subthread back a bit, I heard that NPR story, too. Some things I don't think were mentioned:

They spoke to a doctor whose specialty lies in this field at the end, after he heard the story. He pointed out that the people in the story had an incredible shift in testosterone levels, and it is more likely that the magnetude of the change had a lot more to do with the emotional/behavioral changes than the simple level.

Second, the testing of testosterone levels showed that not every stereotype you might have with regard to testosterone levels was true. The "winner" among the women was the boss, but she wasn't the most accomplished/famous of them (argueably, that'd be Sarah Vowell, who's published two books). The highest levels among the men was in a gay man who had no interest in sports, and who was not the one in charge of things on the show.

Standard disclaimer: this is not to say that I view homosexuality as inheritly less male than heterosexuality, but I was addressing stereotypical views on hormones.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Anyone who's idea of flirting involves staring at a woman's chest hasn't really gotten the idea quite right, wouldn't you say? Flirting is a fun, wholesome activity that engages the wit and the heart, makes the blood pump a little faster, and when done successfully leaves two people feeling good about themselves. Whether or not it involves sex in any capacity is beside the point. I have had great fun flirting with people I had no intention of ever sleeping with.

Amen to that. One of my friends in college and I had a relationship that practically revolved around flirting with each other. We flirted with each other at her wedding.

I'm in a loving, committed relationship, but I still flirt with a number of the ladies in the assorted offices I have to deal with at work. I even flirt with a few of the undergrads I work with. Though that one's a touchier subject. One girl in the department completely failed to understand why I suddenly stopped flirting with her when I became a TA for one of her classes. Eventually, I explained myself when she thought something was wrong. She then proceeded to make me blush like a schoolgirl.

Flirting is good, clean fun.

Something else I wanted to mention: Hormones don't do as much as people think they do, popularly.

Definitely. As someone mentioned a while back, maturity is probably the salient factor. It's one thing when a 16 year old kid can't keep his eyes off the woman next door's sweater enough to actually manage a conversation. It's quite another when his 40 year old father comes out and does the exact same thing.

The first is actually somewhat amusing. The second is downright creepy.

 

[Dragongirl]

I hear you, little guy, but word on the street is that if Amy had her way, she'd marry Genevieve.

Why? Simply because she enjoys doing construction work? Something that is historically associated with men? I think it is sad that whenever women do something that in general has been done by men means they are lesbian.

About women wearing certain types of clothing......A woman that wears something showing a lot of cleavage obviously wishes to display what she has, not that she is asking for anything more than that. Just as a man with a defined chest might wear a tight shirt, or wear tight pants for.....other reasons.

As for women having many sexual partners being looked down on and the opposite for men I do think that is a shame. Personally I think members of either sex doing that is something not to be looked on with favor. Myself, I won't have sex, but I will make love, if you don't know the differense I feel sorry for you.

 

[DarkShiv]

Do it all, as much as possible. Just keep it to a minimum of people. Women gamers, like women with glasses, have always made me look twice. I like the idea of conversation. It really doesn't matter in the end. Judgement of such is usually in fear of one's own faults.

 

[barsoomcore]

Why?

Mostly it's the outrageous flirting that goes on between them, but the comment that really flipped me was Amy's: "She can melt my marshmallow any time."

Look, I don't know these women and I wasn't being serious but they certainly do behave like a flirting couple, and they're both very funny, very likable people and I like them and they make me laugh. So I was sharing a laugh. Sorry to offend, it was not in any way my intent.

I think it is sad that whenever women do something that in general has been done by men means they are lesbian.

So do I, Dragongirl. My wife makes really cool gun sound effects -- normally the province of males -- and I can assure you she is not lesbian.

Once again I apologize and hope you believe I meant no offense, and indeed did not mean to seriously imply that Amy Winn is a lesbian.