Falling Icicle
Adventurer
Illusion spells.
Six Saving Throws - One for Each Ability Score?
- Thread starter Falling Icicle
- Start date
Illusion spells.
This can be as simple as saying, no more than 3 ability score shifts per session, whether used for saves or skills. If they don't include even a suggestion of a limiter here, then this will become abused rapidly.
Yora
Legend
That was my question. What would you defend against?
I like the idea. It would give every ability score an automatic aspect to all characters and give a noticeable penalty to "dump stats".
My main worry is parity within the ability saves. Fort/Ref/All was three saves and after the first few levels, you'd roll them all about equally. But who knows how often a PC will roll an Intelligence or Charisma saving throw (mostly I don't know what they'd be tied to.
Each ability save WILL need a common and easily invoked situation to rolled. Strength would have push, pull, and grapples. Dexterity would have breath attacks, explosions, and other evasive actions.
But I worry about the mental abilities. Even will saves weren't that common in 3rd and 4th unless the DM or players purposely used them (until the levels got high and it was savings throws all day). I just hope they manage to spread saves around in core without doing it in silly ways.
My main worry is parity within the ability saves. Fort/Ref/All was three saves and after the first few levels, you'd roll them all about equally. But who knows how often a PC will roll an Intelligence or Charisma saving throw (mostly I don't know what they'd be tied to.
Each ability save WILL need a common and easily invoked situation to rolled. Strength would have push, pull, and grapples. Dexterity would have breath attacks, explosions, and other evasive actions.
But I worry about the mental abilities. Even will saves weren't that common in 3rd and 4th unless the DM or players purposely used them (until the levels got high and it was savings throws all day). I just hope they manage to spread saves around in core without doing it in silly ways.
Sammael
Adventurer
I use the same system in my home game, however I combine abilities with skills for full effect.
Might: Athletics + Str (constriction, crushing, immobilization, paralysis)
Reflex: Acrobatics + Dex (area effects, touch effects)
Fortitude: Endurance + Con (disease, petrification, polymorph, poison)
Disbelief: Perception + Int (illusions)
Composure: Insight + Wis (fear, mind reading, sensory overload)
Willpower: Resolve + Cha (charm, domination)
The above list of effects is not conclusive, of course.
Might: Athletics + Str (constriction, crushing, immobilization, paralysis)
Reflex: Acrobatics + Dex (area effects, touch effects)
Fortitude: Endurance + Con (disease, petrification, polymorph, poison)
Disbelief: Perception + Int (illusions)
Composure: Insight + Wis (fear, mind reading, sensory overload)
Willpower: Resolve + Cha (charm, domination)
The above list of effects is not conclusive, of course.
Li Shenron
Legend
Speed is indeed the drawback, while the good part is more rolling for those who think it's fun. The best way would be to make it optional: either static DC and roll ST, roll DC and static ST, or roll both. Maybe even everything static in trivial situations (see seminar's example on jumping over a pit, although that's more clearly an action, and the example is in the skill context).
A similar idea can be applied to attacks vs AC. We already know that AC is a sacred cow and will be in 5e, but even in 3e (UA or a similar book, I don't remember) there were suggestions/options on rolling for AC. The game doesn't really massively change, except for making possible something good/bad that was previously impossible with static... but clearly everything depends if you want more or less rolls in a certain area.
The conversion between static stuff and rolling it is dead easy in a d20 system... for the static equivalent just assume a roll of 10!
Klaus
First Post
And Tunnels & Trolls. Ability-based saving rolls go waaaaay back.
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
I haven't seen any sort of variant of this idea in action, but on paper I don't like it.
For one thing, it seems to lend itself to ability score bloat - now you absolutely need to inflate ALL of your ability scores, because those are your saving throws! This will prove doubly damning for those who don't inflate their ability scores, since presumably stronger enemies will somehow scale up the DCs of their saving throws, effectively punishing you for not boosting the relevant ability score.
I've heard a lot about how 5E will lower the power curve, but bits like this (and the related material about having classes and races both give ability score modifiers) makes me wonder if it's just transfering the curve to a different part of the game.
For one thing, it seems to lend itself to ability score bloat - now you absolutely need to inflate ALL of your ability scores, because those are your saving throws! This will prove doubly damning for those who don't inflate their ability scores, since presumably stronger enemies will somehow scale up the DCs of their saving throws, effectively punishing you for not boosting the relevant ability score.
I've heard a lot about how 5E will lower the power curve, but bits like this (and the related material about having classes and races both give ability score modifiers) makes me wonder if it's just transfering the curve to a different part of the game.
Crazy Jerome
First Post
They also talked about limiting the growth of ability scores, though. No automatic increases by level. Then they specifically talked about allowing stat boosts from items, but capping it. So this is still under design, and they are trying to deal with the side effects.
Me, I'm not sure how well this will work, but I'd be really tempted to keep ability score increases relatively tame, and then instead of a cap, make it easier to raise a low score than a high one. There are any number of mechanical ways that can be done--and has been done in many different systems. That way, you may start out with a great Str and lousy Cha, but at some point raising Str is too much diminishing returns compared to shoring up your bad reactions to fear.
Me, I'm not sure how well this will work, but I'd be really tempted to keep ability score increases relatively tame, and then instead of a cap, make it easier to raise a low score than a high one. There are any number of mechanical ways that can be done--and has been done in many different systems. That way, you may start out with a great Str and lousy Cha, but at some point raising Str is too much diminishing returns compared to shoring up your bad reactions to fear.
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