Skill Challenges: New or Old - which is better?

[pukunui]

Hi all,

Now that 4e has been out for a while, I would like to get a feeling for how people are finding the Skill Challenges mechanic and whether more people prefer the original version or the errata'd version. Feel free to post why you feel either way. Also feel free to post if you think you've got a better alternative or something.

Personally, I think I prefer the errata'd version, but I'm not entirely sure. Part of me also thinks the errata'd version might be too easy rather than too hard like the original version, so I think I want to keep the footnotes (add 5 for skill checks, add 2 if involves a weapon). I mean, with the errata'd version, an easy DC for a 1st level PC is 5. If the PC is trained in that skill, then he won't even need to make a roll. He'll just automatically succeed. On the one hand, I think it's too easy, but on the other hand, shouldn't being trained mean that some things automatically succeed? I guess it depends on what "training" means -- is it an absolute thing (eg. actual knowledge or ability to perform a skill) or is it abstract (eg. training just improves your chances to recall knowledge or perform a skill-related ability)?

I also don't really know how to determine whether something should be Easy, Moderate or Hard. I also don't really know how to determine the complexity but I suppose that's an issue for a separate thread.

EDIT: As a side issue: who thinks the "three strikes and you're out" rule is better than "failures = half the number of successes"? I'm not sure if it's better or not. On the face of it, it seems worse, especially for complexity 5. 12 successes but only 3 failures? But since the DCs are all a lot lower, I suppose it's easier to get successes and harder to get failures ...

Anyway ... discuss.



Cheers,
Jonny

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I put "Other" since well, while we use Skill Challenges we aren't very rule-bent in how we use them in our games.

It is much more I dunno relaxed. It is more simply eyeballing it, going with what feels right for that point, etc. Literally skill challenge difficulty and amount, etc, etc. will flux mid-Skill Challenge in our games because of what is happening around us.

We don't even have ones that are back to back. We have ones where you do part of it, go off do something else, come back, etc.

Sooo yeah, we don't really bother much about the math and as such can't really answer.

 

[beeflv30]

Where might one find the eratta for skill challenges?
I did not know they "fixed" it.
Or is it the dm screen erratta released before the screen came out?
thanks.

 

[Stalker0]

Also feel free to post if you think you've got a better alternative or something.

The Obsidian system in my signature. Might sound a bit arrogant, but I think I got something pretty right with that mechanic.

 

[CharlesRyan]

I went with Other. I think the errata version of the RAW is much better, but I don't quite do it RAW. I don't set up specific skills required for the challenge; rather, I let the players decide how they want to tackle the challenge, then call for the skill checks accordingly. Of course, this means the players are always looking for ways to use the skills they're good at--which is fine; who doesn't play to their strengths?--but also means I need higher DCs to ensure a real challenge.

 

[pukunui]

Where might one find the eratta for skill challenges?
I did not know they "fixed" it.
Or is it the dm screen erratta released before the screen came out?
thanks.

It's in the DMG errata. The DM Screen errata was for the "page 42" improv table errata,which is related. The main things are that you don't roll initiative anymore and you get "three strikes and you're out" no matter the complexity. I think this last is because they've lowered DCs across the board, so it should be easier to get more successes (and harder to get failures).

 

[pemerton]

I let the players decide how they want to tackle the challenge, then call for the skill checks accordingly. Of course, this means the players are always looking for ways to use the skills they're good at--which is fine; who doesn't play to their strengths?--but also means I need higher DCs to ensure a real challenge.

Do you have any sort of uniform rule as to how much higher?

 

[Baumi]

I also use the new Skill Challenges but with the Footnotes in it, but I have played to few SC's to be 100% sure if I will stay with that rule.

 

[pukunui]

The Obsidian system in my signature. Might sound a bit arrogant, but I think I got something pretty right with that mechanic.

I put "other" in as an option just for you.

 

[vagabundo]

The Obsidian system in my signature. Might sound a bit arrogant, but I think I got something pretty right with that mechanic.

The Obsidian system reminds me of Blue Steel for some reason.