Skill challenges

[Oompa]

So ive got an question about those..

I am building an skill challenge an burning house with an woman that needs saving..

Well if i say the complexity is 1, thats 4 against 2..

What if they make 4 checks, all 4 succeed but they dont safe the woman with it.. They passed the 4 successes and didnt fail.. but then they still need to safe the woman with 2 or 3 more checks.. if they fail 2 of those checks, does the challenge still fails? or is it an succes but with minor consequences insteadt of major?

I know i can raise the complexity, but what i ask could be possible with every complexity..

Its an bit confusing, im sorry, i hope its clear, if not please do tell me..

 

[Bagpuss]

So ive got an question about those..

I am building an skill challenge an burning house with an woman that needs saving..

Well if i say the complexity is 1, thats 4 against 2..

What if they make 4 checks, all 4 succeed but they dont safe the woman with it..

Is the point of a skill challenge that if you meet the complexity you succeed, hence if the challenge was to save the woman in the burning building and they made four successes then they have got her out alive.

I'm confused as to how they could succeed yet still fail to get her out?

 

[CountPopeula]

I think you're a little unclear on how the skill challenges work. Each success should move the action of the scene forward a bit, and each failure should have some sort of penalty, like closing off the use of that skill for the rest of the challenge or maybe increasing the difficult of the next check (be careful with that one) or taking damage.

Like saving a woman from the building would probably rely on athletics, and a failure would mean the PC would take some fire damage, most likely, or maybe increase the DC of the next check by 2 (because part of the house collapsed and he has to find a way around).

Perception would work as a primary skill too, with the PC trying to find a safe way to move through the house. Heal could be used to aid to check the woman's condition or keep her safe from smoke and heat.

But yeah, if the PCs pass 4 checks before failing 2, then they should have saved the woman.

Try working out a flow chart of what each success will mean, it should be pretty simple.

event 1 - event 2 - event 3 - event 4

like one success could mean finding their way inside and upstairs, success two means they find the woman, success three they make sure she's okay and figure a way out, and success 4 they get the woman out of the house.

A skill challenge is a scene where skill checks move the action forward, the way attacks move combat forward. It's not a disjointed series of skill checks.

 

[Oompa]

Hmmm that is indeed the way i need to see it..

Im still in the system of making simple checks..

 

[Oompa]

I think you're a little unclear on how the skill challenges work. Each success should move the action of the scene forward a bit, and each failure should have some sort of penalty, like closing off the use of that skill for the rest of the challenge or maybe increasing the difficult of the next check (be careful with that one) or taking damage.

Like saving a woman from the building would probably rely on athletics, and a failure would mean the PC would take some fire damage, most likely, or maybe increase the DC of the next check by 2 (because part of the house collapsed and he has to find a way around).

Perception would work as a primary skill too, with the PC trying to find a safe way to move through the house. Heal could be used to aid to check the woman's condition or keep her safe from smoke and heat.

But yeah, if the PCs pass 4 checks before failing 2, then they should have saved the woman.

Try working out a flow chart of what each success will mean, it should be pretty simple.

event 1 - event 2 - event 3 - event 4

like one success could mean finding their way inside and upstairs, success two means they find the woman, success three they make sure she's okay and figure a way out, and success 4 they get the woman out of the house.

A skill challenge is a scene where skill checks move the action forward, the way attacks move combat forward. It's not a disjointed series of skill checks.

But what if their first check is to see how much time they have left, and then make the 3 checks as you say..

then they succeed the challenge, but are still standing in the burning building..

 

[SableWyvern]

I think the OP is referring to a situation where the players make four successful skill checks, all using skills allowed by the challenge, and all which would contribute towards saving a woman in a burning house, but which, taken together, aren't sufficient to have actually saved her.

EG: Player 1 makes a check to determine the woman's location (success)
Player 2 makes a check to determine the best way into the burning building (success)
Player 3 makes a check to keep the fire from reaching the attic where the woman is cowering (success)
Player 4 makes a check to gain entrance to the lower part of the building (success)

So, the challenge is successful, but the group only seems to be half-way to actually rescuing the trapped woman.

Edit: as to how to deal with the sort of situation ... I'm no skill challenge expert, but I'd consider the idea that any skill check that doesn't drive the challenge forward may not count as a success, but instead provide a bonus to a later check that does.

 

[akbearfoot]

I thought the goal of the skill challenge = get in and save the woman?

Not skill challenge a. get through door. B. get up the stairs to her room. c get her back out etc....


That's the point of having the 4 success before 2 failures, I think. If you get 4 successes before failing twice, then you succeed. If you fail the challenge then something goes wrong (up to DMs discretion). Until you get 2 failures nothing bad is supposed to happen.


That would just make skill challenges even more broken mathematically than they are....what with the complexity 1 having such low success rates to begin with.

 

[Oompa]

Yeah the goal is to reach the woman, but how do you get there? How do you get her out? How much time do you have? Is she injured?

 

[Oompa]

Edit: as to how to deal with the sort of situation ... I'm no skill challenge expert, but I'd consider the idea that any skill check that doesn't drive the challenge forward may not count as a success, but instead provide a bonus to a later check that does.

That is nice... if they would fail such an secondary check they would get an -2 and an big fail..

 

[CountPopeula]

But what if their first check is to see how much time they have left, and then make the 3 checks as you say..

then they succeed the challenge, but are still standing in the burning building..

That seems simple to me. Not every successful skill check during a skill challenge has to contribute to the challenge. A skill check to determine how much time they had left would tell them how much time they had, but it wouldn't move them any closer to actually rescuing the victim, so why should it could as a success to the challenge?

Think of it like combat. The PCs are free to do anything, but not everything they do, even they're successful, will directly contribute to winning the combat.

The rogue could cut down the chandelier in the middle of the room, right? He does this with a melee attack. Now, the orc in the room with 52 hit points still has 52 hit points, but now the square the chandelier fell in is difficult terrain. See what I'm getting at?