Skill Chellenges - unfun?

[Varis]

Is anyone else having a tough time implementing and enjoying the use of skill challenges. At the moment, I have them mentally catergorised as 'time wasters' and well,...unfun.

They seem like a headache to set up and understand (both in implementation and the xp the are supposed to yield), and what's worse, the players themselves don't seem to get anything out of them.

I would 'like' see them being used seamlessly, within the natural flow of the game, and be able to use it on the fly, rather than calculate challenge ratings, and levels and DC's... frankly my mind just goes to mush when I try reading that stuff.

My biggest complaint is that I am just not enjoying them. What can I do differently? How should I best use skill challenges to maximise the thrill.

Is it just me or are other people feeling the pain?

 

[Thanee]

Admittedly, I also have trouble setting up cool skill challenges (and mostly use skills in the traditional way). But it is certainly possible; it does require some preparation to have a situation, that can be handled well with a skill challenge, however.

Skill challenges do not fit well into my more improvised DM style, I think, but they can be nice for DMs who plan ahead more.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Varis]

Skill challenges do not fit well into my more improvised DM style

Your probably right, this is my style as well.

I KNOW it can be cool, I can just sense it,..its just a matter of 'cracking' the right way of doing it on the fly.

 

[Prism]

I played a few rubbish skill challenges that seemed just forced - most seem to involve talking to undead which is a bit odd

A good one that springs to mind is using a skill challenge to help build a ship in one of the Living FR adventures. Using lots of skills to move stuff, haggle, get better deals, find parts etc over the course of several days/weeks seems to work well. There are also some decent looking ones in Draconomicon

I think the problem with the ones in the H modules is that they over emphasize the skill challenges. Some thing should really be a complexity 1 or 2 they push up to a 5. This tends to heavily drag when all you are really doing is having a conversation - basically rolling the same two skills up to 12 times

 

[Tuft]

Those few skill challenges I've played in our 4E try-out campaign have felt rather... well, "forced" and "contrived" comes to mind.

Especially the social one, where you had five characters trying five separate but simultanous conversation tracks against the same NPC, in order to be able to use their separate skill sets...

 

[Quickleaf]

I think they're a bit of a paradox. You need to prepare in order for them to flow seamlessy during improv...if that makes sense. So you'd assemble a portfolio of skill challenges in your DM binder. When you have a suitable scene pull out the corresponding skill challenge and improvise the rest according to the specifics of your scenario.

Also, I want to point you to my thoughts in this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/251200-skill-challenge-trap-clearinghouse.html#post4682392

 

[Kzach]

Yeah, I have a problem wrapping my head around them too. It all sounds easy enough reading it on paper but actually implementing them at the table is a big disconnect for me.

I started a thread in General a couple of weeks back asking for people to post examples of skill challenges in play which did help me a bit. If I had search I'd link it.

I think one thing that is helping me also is thinking of skill challenges as encounters rather than individual skill checks. They're for big and important situations rather than the every day, on the fly scenarios that only require one check. For instance, a chat with a barkeep to get some information out of him would be just one Streetwise check but scouring an entire town for information whilst trying to keep a low profile to avoid attracting the attention of authorities and gang members would be a skill challenge.

Thinking of it in terms of an encounter that is played out in a similar manner to combat, does tend to make things easier to grok for me. Having said that, if your players don't enjoy being imaginative and doing a bit of roleplaying, then skill challenges are probably just a big waste of time and energy.

 

[0-hr]

Our group definitely feels your pain. The skill challenges seem like an awkward, out of place, mini-game spliced grotesquely into the middle of game session (much like 3.5 grapple was to the normal flow of combat).

I think that these are meant for beginning groups who have yet to transition to more mature roleplaying. The skill challenge mechanics are a step between the "MMORPG with dice" mentality and the organic interplay of RP'ing and skill checks that veteran groups (usually) develop as they move beyond the hack-n-slash.

In that regard, they may be very useful. For us (and probably most people on this board), I think the old fashioned way is smoother and can achieve the same results without the disconnect caused by awkward, in-your-face mechanics.

 

[Ryujin]

Skill challenges are a painful contrivance. Things that we've handled for years, via role play, now have to be stepped through like a pain-by-numbers. When the Fighter sticks a dagger to the helpless opponent's throat and says, "Talk or die" does it REALLY require 15 rolls to bargain for his eventual release after talking, or will a quiet, "Talk and we'll let you go" from the Cleric be sufficient?

And tying sizable XP awards to them on top of it?

 

[Belares]

I dislike the skill challenges as well. They seem cumbersome to the flow of the game and not everyone in my group likes them. In another game I played at level 1 we had to do a skill challenge that was "complex" and the result of failing it was horrendous. If you played the intial Scales of War module from Wotc site you will know what i mean.

I think in some instances it is fine if you are well prepared to do it but just from what i have seen I would rather "roleplay" most social challenges.