Sleight-of-hand in combat

[Hypersmurf]

Well, there's not much in the way of definition there - we'd have to hearken back to 3.0, when a dead halfling was probably a large object...

Objects and creatures were pretty consistent, weren't they?

It was weapons that were a bit odd. A dead halfling would be a Small object, but a Medium weapon...

-Hyp.

 

[amazingshafeman]

Attacking unarmed provokes an Attack of Opportunity. Grappling provokes an Attack of Opportunity. Disarming AND Grabbing an Item provokes an Attack of Opportunity. Therefore, Sleight of Hand has to provoke one as well. The Sleight of Hand/Spot opposed check would merely let your opponent notice what you grabbed. You're still reaching for your opponent at the very least and actually entering your opponent's space in the most extreme circumstances. If you're opponent is aware of your presence, making either of those moves would provoke them. Considering Sleight of Hand is one of those skills barbs can't use when raging, that labels it as one of those skills you have to concentrate on to perform to me. If you're concentrating on nipping off a ring, you're not concentrating on your own defense so much. That's what provokes the attack of opportunity. YOUR focus is shifted, not necessarily your opponent's.

 

[likuidice]

"Free actions don’t take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn. Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity"

"Action: Any Sleight of Hand check normally is a standard action. However, you may perform a Sleight of Hand check as a free action by taking a –20 penalty on the check."

Though it's not explicitly stated, it's unlikely to draw an AOO, if casting a quickened spell does not draw an AOO because it's too fast to actully react to, so the sleight of hand check should be treated the same. Also, so far as I have seen, there are no free actions that draw an AOO.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

"Free actions don’t take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn. Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity"

Though it's not explicitly stated, it's unlikely to draw an AOO,

I highlighted the important part. Free Actions, in and of themselves, have no particular quality about them that prevents them from provoking an AoO.

if casting a quickened spell does not draw an AOO because it's too fast to actully react to,

That is a property of quickened spells, not of Free Actions in general.

Also, so far as I have seen, there are no free actions that draw an AOO.

A slight of hand check made as a Free Action appears to be one of them.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Also, so far as I have seen, there are no free actions that draw an AOO.

From the Players Handbook:
RAPID RELOAD
Benefit: The time required for you to reload your chosen type of crossbow is reduced to a free action (for a hand or light crossbow) or a move action (for a heavy crossbow). Reloading a crossbow still provokes an attack of opportunity.

From Complete Adventurer:
Free Stand: With a DC 35 Tumble check result, you can stand up from prone as a free action (instead of as a move action). This use of the skill still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.

-Hyp.

 

[ARandomGod]

Attacking unarmed provokes an Attack of Opportunity.

If and only if you're seen. If you attack unarmed while invisible, or against a blind target, or using some other way to be unseen, it does not provoke.

Grappling provokes an Attack of Opportunity.

Once again. If and only if you're seen. If you grapple while invisible, or against a blind target, or using some other way to be unseen, it does not provoke.

Disarming AND Grabbing an Item provokes an Attack of Opportunity. Therefore, Sleight of Hand has to provoke one as well.

If and only if you're seen. If you do any of these things invisibly, or against a blind target, or using some other way to be unseen, it does not provoke. Sleight of hand, when the opposition doesn't make a spot check, by definition is not seen. It wasn't seen to happen, the target isn't aware it happened. No AoO was taken because the target didn't see the opportunity.

The Sleight of Hand/Spot opposed check would merely let your opponent notice what you grabbed.

Not at all, the spot check is to notice the action, not to notice what was taken. It's possible that even if you notice someone took something, you'll have to check yourself to notice exactly what that something was. Although that part is not clarified.

When you use this skill under close observation, your skill check is opposed by the observer’s Spot check. The observer’s success doesn’t prevent you from performing the action, just from doing it unnoticed.

You're still reaching for your opponent at the very least and actually entering your opponent's space in the most extreme circumstances. If you're opponent is aware of your presence, making either of those moves would provoke them. Considering Sleight of Hand is one of those skills barbs can't use when raging, that labels it as one of those skills you have to concentrate on to perform to me. If you're concentrating on nipping off a ring, you're not concentrating on your own defense so much. That's what provokes the attack of opportunity. YOUR focus is shifted, not necessarily your opponent's..

Yes. If your opponent is aware, or if he becomes aware via spot, making either of those moves would provoke. And I agree 100% that your focus has shifted from complete defence to attempting to make the other person THINK you're not taking something while you are. If you're in combat you're obviously attempting to make him think you're still threatening him, you're still defending. While instead you're takin' stuff. If he notices this, he gets an AoO.

If you try to take something from another creature, you must make a DC 20 Sleight of Hand check to obtain it. The opponent makes a Spot check to detect the attempt, opposed by the same Sleight of Hand check result you achieved when you tried to grab the item. An opponent who succeeds on this check notices the attempt, regardless of whether you got the item.

The opponent makes a spot check to detect the attempt. If he doesn't detect it, no AoO. Pretty clear to me.

I also have to agree here that the freeness or non-freeness of the sleight attempt won't make a difference. Pretty much it's just if you're detected or not.

On the other hand, at this point I want to suggest....

"Free actions don’t take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn. Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity"

There's no explicit limit on the number of free actions you can take. ... So, as a free action which provokes if noticed... and if the opponent doesn't have combat reflexes (or if you're willing to take the hits), you can try over, and over, and over again. Essentially taking every small object on the target's person. ExCellEnt. You can't do THAT with grab!

 

[Hypersmurf]

If and only if you're seen. If you do any of these things invisibly, or against a blind target, or using some other way to be unseen, it does not provoke. Sleight of hand, when the opposition doesn't make a spot check, by definition is not seen. It wasn't seen to happen, the target isn't aware it happened. No AoO was taken because the target didn't see the opportunity.

Careful. The AoO is not prevented by the action being unseen; it's prevented by you being unseen.

They don't see your Sleight of Hand, but they see you just fine... and the big hole in your defences left by whatever distracting act you're performing.

Which distracting act, exactly? Why, I couldn't rightly say... didn't notice the specifics. But sure made him easy to hit, whatever it was!

-Hyp.

 

[ARandomGod]

Careful. The AoO is not prevented by the action being unseen; it's prevented by you being unseen.

They don't see your Sleight of Hand, but they see you just fine... and the big hole in your defences left by whatever distracting act you're performing.

Which distracting act, exactly? Why, I couldn't rightly say... didn't notice the specifics. But sure made him easy to hit, whatever it was!

-Hyp.

But they were distracted by the illusion you were weaving of not dropping your guard. Kinda like a feint, only you don't get any bonus for attacking afterwards... well, not unless you sleighted the right thing...

 

[Hypersmurf]

But they were distracted by the illusion you were weaving of not dropping your guard. Kinda like a feint, only you don't get any bonus for attacking afterwards... well, not unless you sleighted the right thing...

Now you're just making stuff up

A Spot check will determine whether or not an observer notices the Sleight of Hand you're attempting. If you want them to not notice you, you need a Hide check. Just because they don't notice your Sleight of Hand doesn't mean they don't notice the opportunity to thump you while you're performing a distracting act in a threatened square.

-Hyp.

 

[ARandomGod]

Now you're just making stuff up

A Spot check will determine whether or not an observer notices the Sleight of Hand you're attempting. If you want them to not notice you, you need a Hide check. Just because they don't notice your Sleight of Hand doesn't mean they don't notice the opportunity to thump you while you're performing a distracting act in a threatened square.

-Hyp.

It's all definitions of what you think sleight of hand is, I suppose, since RAW doesn't really say one way or the other.

IMO sleight of hand is a movement that's faster than the eye... So that you could do it without the typical person noticing that you've 'dropped' your guard.

A trick or set of tricks performed by a juggler or magician so quickly and deftly that the manner of execution cannot be observed; legerdemain.

I especially like that lederdemain is just another word for sleight of hand...