Slight change to Knockdown

[SableWyvern]

Looking at the knockdown feat, it has occured to me that, as it stands (errata included), it is not really all that different from improved trip in reverse.

With improved trip, you can make a free follow up attack at the same bab upon a successful trip.

With knockdown, you can make a free trip upon a melee attack delivering 10+ damage.

I am intending to alter knockdown so that a failed trip peformed using knockdown does not give an opponent a trip attempt of his own.

My reasoning is twofold. First, from a metagame perspective, it makes the trip perform a useful function - as it stands, I do not think it does that.

Secondly, from the feat's description, it is the force of the attacker's blows that provides the trip opportunity. I can see no reason in-game reason why potentially being knocked over by a forcefull serious of blows gives a chance to trip an opponent.

Anyone see a problem with my reasoning?

 

[Crothian]

I like the change. You might want to increase the damage needed, though. At mid levels it's real easy to get your minium damage above 10 thus making the trip attack always happen.

 

[SableWyvern]

Hmmm. Fair point.

I'm thinking then to keep knockdown as standard, but add in that if you do X damage, no counter-trip is possible.

Having DMed only up to level 6, any idea what a fair point to set the no-counter damage level would be? I'm thinking 15, so that:

10 damage = free trip
15 damage = free trip, no counter possible if failed.

 

[Crothian]

That's an interesting suggestion. Personally after seeing this in use I uped it to 20. That makes it only useful for the high damage producers, but when the half orc was doing a minium of 9 damage at level one (20 str, greatsword so damage was 2d6+7) I figured it was needed. With the great number of feats out there the group decided that making a few of them more difficult to use was okay,

 

[SableWyvern]

I can definitely see your point: the level 8 fighter in the party is doing 10 - 15 damage regularly.

However, it's the level 6 Monk who's taking the feat, and he's been looking forward to it for some time. With only a +3 Str bonus and a magic poor setting, even 15 is going to be out of his range for some time.

For the moment I think I'll go with what I suggested above, since no-one else in the party has shown any interest in taking it, and thus it is unlikely to be abused.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Crothian]

Not a problem, that seems like the right thing to do. I just didn't want the feat to always happen, I felt that would make it too good.