Smite as the signature move of Paladins.

[DogBackward]

What is the difference between a paladin and our cleric of Moradin(or any other martial focussed cleric)? That in the end the cleric has wasted all of his shots at customization just to look like the paladin while the paladin is still free to pick any theme and background he fancies. (And not many people has really though of the inverse, why have clerics if a Paladin with the right background and theme can look a lot like one?)

Also remember THEMES AND BACKGROUNDS ARE CLEARLY OPTIONAL and very likely to be in the hands of the DM who may simply turn them off to get an old school feel, should that happen the cleric that claims being a paladin by virtue of background/Theme stops looking like one, while the Paladin witht the paladin class is still a Paladin.

If the only way to have a paladin/ranger/druid/bard/barbarian is by picking a specific combination of theme/background/class they are going to have lots of unhappy players that will just vote with their feet and go back to 3.5, 4e, 2e or PF where those are classes. If there are is no paladin class then we have no paladins, period. No matter how many can be argued how backgrounds and themes replace them, we must be able to play a paladin without backgrounds and Themes, they are a pluss than can (and will) be turned off, not something vital like the classes.

Knight and Guardian are flavor. Neither of those are required for Paladin-hood. Before 4e, Paladins weren't defenders, and didn't intercept attacks for allies. Theme is optional. And Background carries nothing that is Paladin-iconic, other than the idea that Paladins are knightly. That's not something you need a Background to represent.

 

[Steely_Dan]

If they had just the 4 bases classes and everything else be Backgrounds/Themes from the beginning that would be one thing, but if they add more classes (which I'm sure they will), where to draw the line?

All I know is I need some Monk love in the initial PHB, not waiting around for years.

I think I recall reading the Assassin (my very first character, in 1st Ed AD&D, was an assassin) as an example of a complicated class.

 

[Sound of Azure]

What is the difference between a paladin and our cleric of Moradin(or any other martial focussed cleric)? That in the end the cleric has wasted all of his shots at customization just to look like the paladin while the paladin is still free to pick any theme and background he fancies. (And not many people has really though of the inverse, why have clerics if a Paladin with the right background and theme can look a lot like one?)

Also remember THEMES AND BACKGROUNDS ARE CLEARLY OPTIONAL and very likely to be in the hands of the DM who may simply turn them off to get an old school feel, should that happen the cleric that claims being a paladin by virtue of background/Theme stops looking like one, while the Paladin witht the paladin class is still a Paladin.

If the only way to have a paladin/ranger/druid/bard/barbarian is by picking a specific combination of theme/background/class they are going to have lots of unhappy players that will just vote with their feet and go back to 3.5, 4e, 2e or PF where those are classes. If there are is no paladin class then we have no paladins, period. No matter how many can be argued how backgrounds and themes replace them, we must be able to play a paladin without backgrounds and Themes, they are a pluss than can (and will) be turned off, not something vital like the classes.

Customisation is never a waste if it fits what you want to to, conceptually and mechanically. Having convergent ways of making the same basic concept isn't a bad thing, in my opinion. It's one of the most appealing things about the proposed modularity.

 

[MoonSong]

Customisation is never a waste if it fits what you want to to, conceptually and mechanically. Having convergent ways of making the same basic concept isn't a bad thing, in my opinion. It's one of the most appealing things about the proposed modularity.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm a customizer, I'm the kind of guy that goes out of the way to get just the exact character I want to play. I have nothing against a cleric taking a certain theme-BG combination and looking and playing very similar to a paladin, or a wizard taking a theme-BG and playing like a sorcerer, or a druid doing the same thing to be like a Bard, or a Fighter to look like a Barbarian, or a rogue to be like a Ranger (actually the oppossite, that is just great!!) but WHEN THOSE ARE THE ONLY WAYS TO PLAY A PALADIN, SORCERER, BARD, BARBARIAN OR RANGER, then you are forced to give up your precious Theme and Background slots -that otherwise you could use to fine tune your character- just to play a generic member of your class, that gets even worse when Theme and Background are turned off by the DM, because then you can't even play any of those classes at all.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm a customizer, I'm the kind of guy that goes out of the way to get just the exact character I want to play.

Ah, it seems I misunderstood your point. Sorry about that. Hopefully we'll get what we need soon!

 

[underfoot007ct]

Care to point me to it?

From todays Rules Of Three:

Will there be a paladin class or is it going to be a theme that can be applied to a Fighter/Cleric/Rogue/Wizard?
The paladin will be a class. While the cleric of Moradin in the playtest does look a lot like a paladin (wearing heavy armor and defending his or her allies), keep in mind that this particular cleric is built with the War domain and the Guardian theme, which gears that character toward a very specific archetype that is similar to the paladin. The paladin is going to have plenty of unique features of its own to make it stand out as a class.




Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Rule-of-Three: 06/05/2012)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Actually, we knew before:

The Paladin was mentioned several times, one outstanding trait is his fearlessness.

 

[Zaphling]

from todays rules of three:

will there be a paladin class or is it going to be a theme that can be applied to a fighter/cleric/rogue/wizard?
the paladin will be a class. While the cleric of moradin in the playtest does look a lot like a paladin (wearing heavy armor and defending his or her allies), keep in mind that this particular cleric is built with the war domain and the guardian theme, which gears that character toward a very specific archetype that is similar to the paladin. The paladin is going to have plenty of unique features of its own to make it stand out as a class.




dungeons & dragons roleplaying game official home page - article (rule-of-three: 06/05/2012)

thank thank so much for pointing this out!!!