D&D 5E Smite spells in the new packet

the Jester

Legend
Okay, looking the spells in the new packet, there are a number of "x Smite" spells (branding smite, damning smite, etc.)

Here's where I'm a little confused: They have a duration of 1 minute, yet you cast it when you hit as a swift action and "the attack" deals extra damage, plus possibly something else.

Is the one minute duration strictly for the something else (e.g. banished to Hell via damning smite)? Seems way overpowered if the damage bonus applies for a minute.
 

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Falling Icicle

Adventurer
I suspect the 1 minute duration is a typo, as the spell descriptions themselves seem to indicate that they're intended to only work on one attack.

Also, Damning Smite is ridiculously overpowered. Reduce someone to 50 hp or less, and automatically banish them to the nine hells with no saving throw.
 

Atomo

First Post
I suspect the extra damage is just for that attack and the "lingering" effects (banish to Nine Hells, turn visible emiting light, etc...) are the reason for the 1-minute duration.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
Also, Damning Smite is ridiculously overpowered. Reduce someone to 50 hp or less, and automatically banish them to the nine hells with no saving throw.

It's not that different from Power Word Kill, which is a 9th level Mage spell. Damning Smite is technically 5th level, but both spells can be cast only by a 17th level character. If anything, DS works only under 50hp while PWK works under 100hp, and even tho the effect for the encounter's purpose is the same, on the long term you haven't actually killed your enemy when using DS, so it's slightly worse.

I think btw it's quite a flavorful spell, but I'm not sure narratively why a Paladin would have the rights to send to hell a non-evil creature.
 

gyor

Legend
I love the Paladin's new spells including Smites and Auras, you can tell the Paladin is vary much focused on mixing magic and fighting from the get go.

Damning Smite is for the morally darker Blackguards, sending banishing non fiends to the hells to be tortured is an a very horrorifying act, evil even.

You do have to hit the target for the effect to work.

For the record a Cleric can cast Plane Shift on someone and send them to hell as well and while the target get's a saving throw it can be at any hit points. You could end a battle say with the Black Dragin Legendary Monster with Planeshift and a bad role by the DM on the Clerics turn sending him to hell or Banehold, the Abyss, or the Deep Caverns, or Carceri the Prison Plane.
 

gyor

Legend
I love the Paladin's new spells including Smites and Auras, you can tell the Paladin is vary much focused on mixing magic and fighting from the get go.

Damning Smite is for the morally darker Blackguards, sending banishing non fiends to the hells to be tortured is an a very horrorifying act, evil even.

You do have to hit the target for the effect to work.

For the record a Cleric can cast Plane Shift on someone and send them to hell as well and while the target get's a saving throw it can be at any hit points. You could end a battle say with the Black Dragin Legendary Monster with Planeshift and a bad role by the DM on the Clerics turn sending him to hell or Banehold, the Abyss, or the Deep Caverns, or Carceri the Prison Plane.
 


Falling Icicle

Adventurer
It's not that different from Power Word Kill, which is a 9th level Mage spell. Damning Smite is technically 5th level, but both spells can be cast only by a 17th level character. If anything, DS works only under 50hp while PWK works under 100hp, and even tho the effect for the encounter's purpose is the same, on the long term you haven't actually killed your enemy when using DS, so it's slightly worse.

Sorry, but I disagree. Just because both classes get something at level 17, doesn't mean it's okay for a 5th level spell to be at all comparable to a 9th level spell. A 5th level spell should be balanced with all other 5th level spells. Also, paladins can use two of these a day, while a wizard can only use one power word kill. Further, the smite is a swift action, so it's on top of all of the paladin's attacks, divine smite, etc, plus its 5d10 damage. So it's very likely to be able to instant kill a 100 hp target, making it objectively just as powerful, perhaps more so, than power word kill. Further, being banished to the nine hells is arguably worse than dying. At least if I die my party can raise or resurrect me. If I'm banished to some random place in the nine hells, I'm SOL, and it would take a major quest to rescue me.

I think btw it's quite a flavorful spell, but I'm not sure narratively why a Paladin would have the rights to send to hell a non-evil creature.

They shouldn't, IMO. I'd be far more comfortable with the spell if it only worked on evil outsiders.
 


gyor

Legend
The banishing effect has a duration of 1 minute, its only temperary, unlike the other.

No the Smites are fine as is, the problem is with Flame Strike.

The Cavalier subclass gets Flame Strike as a Oath Spell, but because Paladin use thier Smite Spells for offence the class does not have an impliment that granta your profiency bonus to the spell, like say Clerics have with holy symbol, or Wizards and Druids have with Wands and Rods. That means Flame Strike is at a major disavantage.
 

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