Snarling Wolf Stance = negates melee attacks for an encounter?

[Alabast]

Not true. If an Immediate Interrupt power is triggered by an enemy hitting you, or dealing damage to you, and that immediate interrupt invalidates the attack (such as by moving you or the target out of range of the attack), the triggering attack is wasted. That's why it's an immediate interrupt, not an imemdiate reaction.

Source? I don't have a PHB in front of me.

 

[Iron Sky]

There are ways around that - like having a group of enemies ready their attacks to go off at once, since you only get one opportunity attack per turn. But yeah, seems wrong. Probably the shift should be dropped.

One OA per enemy per turn that is.

Compendium: "One per Combatant’s Turn: You can take only one opportunity action during another combatant’s turn, but you can take any number during a round."

Ah, I see what you mean, the enemy all ready actions to make attacks when another enemy attacks. Since they all go off during another combatants turn you would only get one.

Hrm. That does seem a bit cheesy to me, kinda like readying a ranged or area attack for when the enemy adjacent to you starts their turn since they can't make OAs during their turn...

 

[Mort_Q]

That does seem a bit cheesy to me...

Isn't that the intent of readied actions? Not that I would have thought that you could pick "at the start of their turn" as a trigger. You risk losing the action if the stated trigger never happens, don't you?

Choose Trigger: Choose the action that will trigger your readied action. When that action occurs, you can use your readied action. If the trigger doesn’t occur or you choose to ignore it, you can’t use your readied action, and you take your next turn as normal.

 

[BobTheNob]

The intircacies of the analysis are correct by raw, but without incoporating the rules lawyer debate, the intention of the power seems crystal clear to me. You are attacked, and in response you hit them back and move away. The move happens after the attack, so the attack counts.

I know it can easily be debated otherwise (go ahead, cite page number, give quotes e.t.c) but it feels to me like that is how it is intended to work, and given that with every errata that comes out I find myself throwing out house rules because they are now official rules, for my game Im happy to go with my interpretation.

It feels right, and its not a game breaker. Worthy of a daily.

 

[BobTheNob]

Double post soz

 

[the Jester]

The way I read this:

Until the stance ends, whenever an enemy hits or
misses you with a close or a melee attack, you can make
a melee basic attack against it as an opportunity action.
You can then shift 3 squares but must not end the shift
adjacent to any enemy.

...the attack is an opportunity action, and after that is complete you shift away. I don't think the shift is an opportunity action at all, but a separate free action, as indicated by the power's sentence structure.

YMMV and all that.

 

[Samir]

The way I read this:



...the attack is an opportunity action, and after that is complete you shift away. I don't think the shift is an opportunity action at all, but a separate free action, as indicated by the power's sentence structure.

YMMV and all that.

Well, it's not a free action unless it says it's a free action, so if it's not part of the opportunity action, it's a "no-action."

The question is then, can a no-action (or a free action) change a hit to a miss? Since it's not an interrupt, it doesn't have the ability to "roll back time," so I'd say no, but CS seems to think so:

Interrupts that trigger when an enemy hits you can invalidate the triggering attack and cause it to miss. See: Evade the Blow (Ranger U16, Player's Handbook), Wizard's Escape (Wizard U6, Arcane Power).

Opportunity actions happen at interrupt speed.

Snarling Wolf Stance allows you to make a melee basic attack as an opportunity action and shift 3 squares away when an enemy hits you with a melee attack. If the 3-square shift takes you out of range of the triggering attack against you, does it invalidate the attack against you and cause it to miss?

Hello Samir,

Thank you for contacting us.

Great question. You are correct in the way that the opportunity attack works. The attack against you would miss.

I’ve passed along this conversation to the game’s developers. Hopefully, we’ll see an update or FAQ entry covering it soon, but until then it’s up to the campaign’s Dungeon Master to decide. The DM is always the final arbiter on how they want their campaign to run. Have fun!
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I'd say the intention of the power is at least somewhat clear (the shift isn't intended to change the outcome of the attack), though the wording is vague.

However, if you have an MBA that lets you shift away (Overwhelming Strike with Power of Skill, or similar) then there's no question that you do become Neo for an encounter.

 

[vic20]

Hrm. That does seem a bit cheesy to me

Yeah, it's sort of cheesy. It's how I used to deal with the ranger's Spitting Cobra Stance (before they "nerfed" it). I kept the cheese somewhat at bay by only allowing tactically intelligent creatures to take advantage of the "everybody act on the same turn" work-around. In the end, he almost always got to spray every enemy; it was only two enemy teams that engaged him with cheese, and not until a turn of getting hammered first...

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

The way I read this:



...the attack is an opportunity action, and after that is complete you shift away. I don't think the shift is an opportunity action at all, but a separate free action, as indicated by the power's sentence structure.

YMMV and all that.

That's the way I read it too. I understand that there are some powers, feats, etc. that are vaguely worded, but I honestly don't think this is one of them. Sentence 1 says that the MBA is an OA when someone misses/hits with a close/melee attack. Sentence 2 says then you can shift.

@Samir: You changed the wording of the power when describing it to CS: you paraphrased it so that the MBA and the shift were explicitly part of the OA whereas the text of the power doesn't do this.

 

[Samir]

@Samir: You changed the wording of the power when describing it to CS: you paraphrased it so that the MBA and the shift were explicitly part of the OA whereas the text of the power doesn't do this.

I didn't, I specifically separated the two. I said "MBA as an opportunity action and shift 3 squares away," not "MBA and shift 3 squares away as an opportunity action." I also gave the book and page number of the power for reference.