Sneak Attack: A Little Too Powerful?

James McMurray said:
However, given the sheer amount of hitpoints threats of that level have, and the fact that many of them will be immune to sneak attacks, and the fact that a 15th level rogue has squat for hit points, I'd say its ok. The rogue in my Return to the Tomb of Horrors campaign is going to be getting it as soon as he can. He'll have to be 18th though, since he doesn't have crippling strike yet.


An Epic-level feat means 20+. And that's a whole 'nother playing field.

Of course, I find it odd that everyone automatically assumes that the rogue will ALWAYS hit, and always roll well on the sneak attack damage.

Try running your party through the laugh riot that is Nightfang Spire, and ask your rogue how over-powered she feels.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Reapersaurus-
I just haven't seen what you're talking about. IME, of the four primary core classes (Rogue, Fighter, Wizard, Cleric), the Rogue is easily the weakest in combat, and out of all the core classes, I would say only the bard and monk are weaker, with the monk being questionable. Sure, every once in a while the rogue gets a chance to shine by landing a key sneak attack, but really it happens just often enough to keep the rogues interested in combat.

And just because Rogues have more non-combat skills does not mean they dominate non-combat situations. IMC, the paladin has been key in non-combat stuff with her knowledge: religion, diplomacy, and detect evil ability. Both Rangers have had their tracking moments. One of the Rangers has focused on climbing which has come in handy several times (I allow no flight or teleport type spells, so going up a wall or across a chasm happens the good old fashioned way). One of the fighters has actually taken a fair amount of Craft skills (he's got INT 15), which has helped out here and there. The fighter/sorceror has helped out with his gather information skills a few times. Even though it's a class skill for Rogues and they have lots of skill points, neither Rogue has taken more than a couple ranks, so the figher/sorceror is the man for gathering information. The Wizard's knowledge skills have come in handy on numerous occasion.

Anyway, I've seen no reason to think sneak attacks are overpowered. They're good enough to make rogues useful in combat (which they weren't in 2E), but if a player wants to really dominate in combat, he should play a fighter, cleric, barbarian, sorceror, or wizard, IMHO.
 



Weeble said:


This was a situational point....why the reply??


Because the "I" in "I kill more rogues this way..." was refering to me being the DM, which, in turn, was referring to a quote previous to mine.

So you saying, "Unless I hit you with my bow." is meaningless because I am the DM. You can attempt to hit me with your bow all you want. But me being the DM means that I decide the situation. Therefore, you will be effective if I choose, regardless of whether or not you have a bow.

As for a bow being powerful with sneak attack: It won't matter one bit because you can't flank with a bow, flat-footed opponents only exist in the first round of combat, and sneak attack only works at 30ft. or less with a bow. So after the first round of combat, I can mutilate you with my angry monsters.

Thus why "hitting me with a bow" is generally less effective than just using a melee or flanking weapon.
 

Ridley's Cohort said:

Of course that would be no fun if the DM did so to the PCs habitually. The net effect would be the DM would be choosing a particular player and murdering his PC. At least it would feel that way from the victim's point of view.


Weird, when I DM, intellegent foes generally gang up on a PC or two. Maybe this is why orcs are pretty challenging in my campaigns... ;)
 

ConcreteBuddha said:



Because the "I" in "I kill more rogues this way..." was refering to me being the DM, which, in turn, was referring to a quote previous to mine.

So you saying, "Unless I hit you with my bow." is meaningless because I am the DM. You can attempt to hit me with your bow all you want. But me being the DM means that I decide the situation. Therefore, you will be effective if I choose, regardless of whether or not you have a bow.

As for a bow being powerful with sneak attack: It won't matter one bit because you can't flank with a bow, flat-footed opponents only exist in the first round of combat, and sneak attack only works at 30ft. or less with a bow. So after the first round of combat, I can mutilate you with my angry monsters.

Thus why "hitting me with a bow" is generally less effective than just using a melee or flanking weapon.

A lot of words in reply for me using the word "I", of which I already knew.

with great sneak skills, I often surprise my opponents for one sneak attack in the partial action surprise round. With Imroved init and a 20 Dex, I often win initiative, and use the full attack option with one of my many bow Feats (Rapid Shot) for two more sneak attacks (3 total). Luckily, I foreshadowed the events of combat to my party members who make sure they get to act in that surprise round. I love our fighter-type, a particularly strong and silent Half-orc Barbarian who likes to just simply move in at "charge" speed to kiss the closest foe, also insuring that I don't get "kissed" back from that foe I sneak attacked three times. Precise shot makes sure I don't stray a shot at Balinor. After our wizard or cleric "holds" someone, I will , at my leisure, Tumble through enemies to flank one that the barbarian is with for even more sneak attacks with my rapier.

Alot of words to explain how I might sneak attack, and HEY!, even switch weapons when I know I can't sneak attack with my bow from a flanking position. My DM would be prepared for all of this (If we were aware of our opponents ahead of time).
 



wow, who am "I" and why do I keep reading "myself", I mean myself.

(triple post, and honest mouse clicking frenzy mistake-sorry persons)
 

Remove ads

Top