Sneak attack inside a creature?

[Dross Swordra]

Suppose a purple worm swallows a rogue, with its 'swallow whole' ability. When the rogue is trying to cut himself out, does he get sneak attack dice?
When this came up in game, I didn't have a whole lot of time to look up all the rules. I ruled that no sneak attack dice applied since the rogue couldn't target any of the Worm's vitals.
Also, I think that the swallowed creature is considered grappled. By RAW does that deny him the ability to sneak attack?

I appreciate the help

-Dross

 

[Festivus]

Here lies your answer I suspect:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040224a

Grappling is worth a special note. When you're grappling, you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) against any foe that you are not grappling, and that's true no matter who started the grapple -- you're just as vulnerable if you initiate a grapple as you are when a foe grapples you. You retain your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, however, against a foe you are grappling. So, if someone grabs you, you can't sneak attack that foe, but your buddies could.

 

[Patlin]

I think the correct way to analyze this is to see whether all of the conditions for sneak attack are met.

Here's where I find a hangup:

"The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach."

I'm thinking you can't reach the vitals from inside a creature with swallow whole. Most such creature don't actually die if you cut your way out of them, so IMO their anatomy is such that the stomach is not a vital area.

Just my 2 cents....

 

[Patlin]

Here lies your answer I suspect:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040224a

A good answer, but incomplete. What if the creature that swallowed you becomes stunned, and loses dex bonus for reasons unrelated to the grapple?

 

[MarkB]

Here lies your answer I suspect:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040224a

It doesn't apply to a swallowed creature. Since the swallower cannot see the swallowee, it loses its DEX bonus against him.

Patlin has the right of it, however. A swallowed creature will have a nigh-impossible task determining where the swallower's vital areas are.

 

[WampusCat43]

I was just thinking about this situation, and bingo! here's the thread. FWIW, I agree - the chances of recognizing the vitals of a creature from the inside are pretty freakin' slim, particularly when you're knee-deep in digestive juices and constricting stomach walls.

 

[starwed]

A swallowed creature will have a nigh-impossible task determining where the swallower's vital areas are.

FWIW, I agree - the chances of recognizing the vitals of a creature from the inside are pretty freakin' slim, particularly when you're knee-deep in digestive juices and constricting stomach walls.

I'm not so sure about this. We're talking about someone who has been specially trained to recognise and strike at vital areas. Assuming they have someway of seeing, I see no reason to deny them sneak attack damage. (How do they find the vitals of a purple worm from the inside? Same way they do from the outside...)

 

[TheEvil]

The character is inside the stomache. Exactly which neighboring organs do you consider non-vital? How do you feel about internal bleeding?

 

[Dross Swordra]

The character is inside the stomache. Exactly which neighboring organs do you consider non-vital? How do you feel about internal bleeding?

I think in this case, we are forced to gloss over a lot of logistics....not the least of which is that once a character has cut himself free from the gizzard, the swallowing creature is still in good enough shape to continue fighting, and the 'muscular action closes the hole' so that when/if the creature swallows another victim, said victim must cut his way out.

but in response to TheEvil's post: By the wording of the escape mechanism, any attack from the victim applies to the gizzard, and not the neighboring vitals

 

[TheEvil]

I think in this case, we are forced to gloss over a lot of logistics....not the least of which is that once a character has cut himself free from the gizzard, the swallowing creature is still in good enough shape to continue fighting, and the 'muscular action closes the hole' so that when/if the creature swallows another victim, said victim must cut his way out.

but in response to TheEvil's post: By the wording of the escape mechanism, any attack from the victim applies to the gizzard, and not the neighboring vitals

You mention logistics. How is hitting something vital on a purple worm from inside the gizzard any harder then a land bound rogue hitting something vital on a huge giant? By playing D&D in the first place you are forced to gloss over an awful lot of logistics.

As far as damage to neighboring 'vitals' goes, since all sneak attack does is grant extra damage without impact to a creatures fighting ability, I consider this a pretty weak argument. Since when has a sneak attack from outside the creature (without feats or special class abilities) ever meant anything other then a louder 'OUCH' from the target?

The thing is, provided you have a light source, you meet all the prereq's for sneak attack: Defender denied dex bonus to attack roll or flanked, have decernable anatomy, and be able to reach said vital locations. Creatures that have swallowed you are denied their dex bonus to armor class, they still have a decernable anatomy and you are hardly in any worse a position to hit a huge creature from the inside then you are from below it. If you want to argue the the stomach conceals vital locations, how do you feel about the skin?