Sneak attatck of opportunity

[Thurbane]

Take a deep breath and repeat mantra. D&D combat is abstract, D&D combat is abstact, D&D combat is abstract.


Ahh yes. The FAQ is pretty clear (and supported by the text on spell casting). I fell into that old (in 2nd ed it was like this) and the "apply common sense to the rules" failure mode.

The rules allow a character to run (using a full round action that is started and completed on his turn in the initiative) in a straight line. On his next turn he can continue to run in a different direction since it is now a different action.

Again repeat with me - D&D combat is abstract, D&D combat is abstract.

So you'd rather a freeform combat system like Vampire? Not for me.

I'm sorry, but with AoO, reach, situational modifiers, varying damage and criticals by weapon and dozens of other factors, it is blatantly obvious that the D&D 3.5 combat system is striving for some degree of realism in amongst all that abstractness.

As I said above, there is no significant reason not to make a few minor concessions to realism that may or may not be RAW. I'm not talking about a whole system rewrite to involve hit locations, damage to weapons and armor, detailed critical tables or anything so involved - but the occasional nod towards realism helps players to "suspend disbelief" in the game.

The thought of summon spinting like some kind of demented desert dwelling lizard for short bursts and stopping between each movement is just plain silly, to me anyway. I think there is enough of a precedent there (Charging penalties) for the suggested houserules above not to be gamebreaking.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The thought of summon spinting like some kind of demented desert dwelling lizard for short bursts and stopping between each movement is just plain silly, to me anyway. I think there is enough of a precedent there (Charging penalties) for the suggested houserules above not to be gamebreaking.

But let's look at a few situations.

1. The character runs north for two rounds.
2. The character runs north for one round, then south for one round.
3. The character runs north as a full round action, and drops prone as a free action. On his next turn, he stands as a free action with a DC35 Tumble check and runs north as a full round action.
4. The character runs north as a full round action, and stops, thinking he's out of danger. Before his next turn, the evil necromancer teleports in nearby; on his next turn, the character once again runs north as a full round action.

In all four cases, the character covers the same amount of distance - 240 feet north, say, in cases 1, 3, and 4, and 120 feet north and 120 feet south in case 2. Whether he stops and starts or not makes no difference to how far he can travel.

-Hyp.

 

[Dracorat]

Frankly, in all cases, I beleive the spirit of the law would have been that you lose your dex bonus until the beginning of the next turn, not because of some "you should hold penalties on full round actions until your turn comes up" but rather because I beleive honestly that the text "You lose any Dexterity bonus to AC unless you have the Run feat." was in error to not specify the penalty lasts until the next round.

But that's just spirit of law. The letter of the law says no such thing and so must be honored at least in a RAW discussion.

Finally, those arguing for realism need to realize that if this level of realism bothers you, so should the lack of facing in the standard rules. Technically, you could run that whole distance backwards if you needed to maintain eye contact with the ranger you are fleeing from (for example).

If you are looking for that level of realism, consider using the UA facing rules and if you do, then you can sneak attack as long as you are within 30 feet (usual restriction) any time the opponents back is turned, which will HAVE to be for them to run. (But most cases, you wont be within 30 feet, but sometimes you will)

 

[Thurbane]

But let's look at a few situations.

1. The character runs north for two rounds.
2. The character runs north for one round, then south for one round.
3. The character runs north as a full round action, and drops prone as a free action. On his next turn, he stands as a free action with a DC35 Tumble check and runs north as a full round action.
4. The character runs north as a full round action, and stops, thinking he's out of danger. Before his next turn, the evil necromancer teleports in nearby; on his next turn, the character once again runs north as a full round action.

In all four cases, the character covers the same amount of distance - 240 feet north, say, in cases 1, 3, and 4, and 120 feet north and 120 feet south in case 2. Whether he stops and starts or not makes no difference to how far he can travel.

-Hyp.

I think we have a communication breakdown here somewhere - I'm not arguing RAW, I'm arguing "common sense" (my own interpreation thereof, anyway). In any of the above cases you listed, my houserule of "running penalty applied until your next turn" would apply.

BTW, if we are debating common sense rather than RAW, what is your take on the charging penalty applying until your next turn? Surely the same logic exists there...

If you are looking for that level of realism, consider using the UA facing rules and if you do, then you can sneak attack as long as you are within 30 feet (usual restriction) any time the opponents back is turned, which will HAVE to be for them to run. (But most cases, you wont be within 30 feet, but sometimes you will)

Interesting, I've been meaning to pick up UA for a while now, this just gives me another reason.

 

[Hypersmurf]

BTW, if we are debating common sense rather than RAW, what is your take on the charging penalty applying until your next turn? Surely the same logic exists there...

Common sense tells me that when Charge says "You take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn", it means the penalty applies until the start of your next turn, not just while you're charging.

I'm using the same logic in both cases - if it says "until your next turn", it lasts until your next turn, and if it doesn't, it doesn't.

-Hyp.

 

[Dracorat]

Interesting, I've been meaning to pick up UA for a while now, this just gives me another reason.

And until you do, they are open content and reprinted here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/combatFacing.htm

 

[Thurbane]

Common sense tells me that when Charge says "You take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn", it means the penalty applies until the start of your next turn, not just while you're charging.

I'm using the same logic in both cases - if it says "until your next turn", it lasts until your next turn, and if it doesn't, it doesn't.

-Hyp.

Um, OK, I'm genuinely lost now.

You're saying your common sense of the RAW, or common sense of real life?

I guess it's my fault for trying to mix RAW and R/L examples...

 

[Hypersmurf]

You're saying your common sense of the RAW, or common sense of real life?

I'm not sure what real life has to do with losing one's Dexterity bonus to Armor Class...

-Hyp.

 

[Thurbane]

I'm not sure what real life has to do with losing one's Dexterity bonus to Armor Class...

-Hyp.

OK, this has completely broken down. You obviously can't see what I'm getting at, and/or I can't see what you're getting at.

Suffice to say the point I was trying to get across was that if you apply the same logic (not RAW, but "instinct" as it were) to the fact that AC penalties from Charging carry over until your next turn, then it's not a far stretch to assume (again, not RAW but assumption based on "instinct") that the loss of Dex bonus from Running could carry over until your next turn.

If the Dex loss disappears instantly after every move, then unless someone is stupid enough to Run within 1 square of a Rogue (assuming a Medium Rogue without a reach weapon, before anyone corrects me), or in the unlikely event someone has readied an action against an opponing Running, the rule will basically never come into play; also the Run feat becomes even less worthwhile to take... :\

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the Dex loss disappears instantly after every move, then unless someone is stupid enough to Run within 1 square of a Rogue (assuming a Medium Rogue without a reach weapon, before anyone corrects me), or in the unlikely event someone has readied an action against an opponing Running...

Given that Run must be in a straight line, sometimes passing through an opponent's threatened area will be unavoidable.

And "I Ready an action to shoot the first opponent to come within 30 feet" or "I Ready an action to 5-foot-step and stab the first opponent to come within 10 feet" aren't that unlikely.

-Hyp.