Satyrn
First Post
Congratulations indeed. Your trophy is a stuffed Tarrasque head to hang on your wall.
D&D 5E So 5 Intelligence Huh
- Thread starter Zardnaar
- Start date
Congratulations indeed. Your trophy is a stuffed Tarrasque head to hang on your wall.
Naw corpses aren't geniuses otherwise they wouldn't be corpses.
Here's how I've seen things thru the years (and 5e still follows this).
An ability score of 10 is average (10-11 since 3e), anything below 10 is not average.
An ability score between 8 and 13 is 'normal', anything below 8 is not 'normal'.
An ability score above 10, now 11, is not average but in a better way.
An ability score above 13 is not 'normal' but also in a better way.
Not sure if 5e follows the other editions in that a 3 int was the minimum needed to be able to understand and speak a language
This is from the Feeblemind spell...
'On a failed save, the creature’s Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. The creature can’t cast spells, activate magic items, understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way. The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them.'
So to me what your ability score is matters for RP stuff. Ability modifiers are how the Ability score is used in the mechanics of the game.
An ability score of 10 is average (10-11 since 3e), anything below 10 is not average.
An ability score between 8 and 13 is 'normal', anything below 8 is not 'normal'.
An ability score above 10, now 11, is not average but in a better way.
An ability score above 13 is not 'normal' but also in a better way.
Not sure if 5e follows the other editions in that a 3 int was the minimum needed to be able to understand and speak a language
This is from the Feeblemind spell...
'On a failed save, the creature’s Intelligence and Charisma scores become 1. The creature can’t cast spells, activate magic items, understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way. The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them.'
So to me what your ability score is matters for RP stuff. Ability modifiers are how the Ability score is used in the mechanics of the game.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
They're just dead because they were waaaaaaaay too smart to go any further and end up incinerated by the dragon. Easier to raise this way.
Your quote from the Feeblemind spell description looks like a set of restrictions on action declaration - which the GM can and should enforce - not a set of instructions on how to roleplay the character.
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
This is a good point, and it brings to my attention the fact that, with AD&D, Gygax abandons a straight 3d6 as a score generation method for any type of character and creates a firm distinction between what he calls "general" characters and the exceptional individuals that have a character class. Because an averaging d6 generates the set of numbers {2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5}, instead of {1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6}, general characters end up with scores between 6 and 15, with a much higher chance of a 10 or 11 (44.44% versus 25%) in a given ability. Furthermore, if we assume this is a clarificaton of Gygax's original intent (as I believe much of AD&D actually is), rather than a revision, then 3d6, as it is used in OD&D (not sure what Basic has to say on this matter), emerges as a method of generating scores for PCs that are more extreme (but not necessarily better) than the average character's, as it continues to do in AD&D for non-prime abilities in NPCs of an exceptional nature.
In fact, this gives me a great idea about doing a zero-level campaign where we roll our stats with averaging dice.
Changing this assumption about the distribution (or likelihood) of ability scores in the general population of a D&D world, of course, changes the relationship between the probability of a given ability score and the probability of a given IQ score. I've worked out the conversions for both methods of score generation, and the formula I've used to describe this relationship is: IQ=100+(Int-10.5)(15/s) where s is the standard deviation of the set of generated values. The standard deviation of 3d6 is about 2.96 whereas the standard deviation of 3 averaging d6 is about 1.66, so it changes the comparison significantly. To be clear, I'm using the definition of IQ that gives it a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15. You could, of course, as @Maxperson has done in this thread, posit a type of fantasy IQ that has some other distribution.
I'm sharing the results for a few reasons. I think some might find it interesting, although I realize that @Ovinomancer in particular seems to be rather disapproving of "mathturbation", as he calls it, although he does seem to enjoy talking about it, and the flatulence of certain fantasy creatures, quite a bit. I myself have been won over by the averaging dice method, which comes close enough, at least at the lower end, to @Maxperson's Int x 10 formulation that it seems likely that he'll be as satisfied with the results as I am and may even claim to be vindicated by them. I must point out, however, that while Intelligence 5 does actually equate to an IQ of 50 under this method, as the Intelligence score rises above 11 the divergence from the Int x 10 formulation becomes more and more apparent. Also of note is how using averaging dice comes a little closer to the design ethos behind 5e's Commoner NPC with its straight 10s (or 11s, taking human racial bonuses into consideration) across the board. I've rounded the IQ scores to the nearest whole number, and I've highlighted in green the range of IQ scores that each method of score generation would produce for members of the general population.
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"][TR][TD]Intelligence[/TD][TD]IQ if using 3d6[/TD][TD]IQ if using 3 avg d6[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]1[/TD][TD]52[/TD][TD]14[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]2[/TD][TD]57[/TD][TD]23[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]3[/TD][TD]62[/TD][TD]32[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]4[/TD][TD]67[/TD][TD]41[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]5[/TD][TD]72[/TD][TD]50[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]6[/TD][TD]77[/TD][TD]59[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]7[/TD][TD]82[/TD][TD]68[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]8[/TD][TD]87[/TD][TD]77[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]9[/TD][TD]92[/TD][TD]86[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]10[/TD][TD]97[/TD][TD]95[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]11[/TD][TD]103[/TD][TD]105[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]12[/TD][TD]108[/TD][TD]114[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]13[/TD][TD]113[/TD][TD]123[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]14[/TD][TD]118[/TD][TD]132[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]15[/TD][TD]123[/TD][TD]141[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]16[/TD][TD]128[/TD][TD]150[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]17[/TD][TD]133[/TD][TD]159[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]18[/TD][TD]138[/TD][TD]168[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]19[/TD][TD]143[/TD][TD]177[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]20[/TD][TD]148[/TD][TD]186[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]21[/TD][TD]153[/TD][TD]195[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]22[/TD][TD]158[/TD][TD]204[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]23[/TD][TD]163[/TD][TD]213[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]24[/TD][TD]168[/TD][TD]222[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]25[/TD][TD]173[/TD][TD]231[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]26[/TD][TD]179[/TD][TD]240[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]27[/TD][TD]184[/TD][TD]249[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]28[/TD][TD]189[/TD][TD]258[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]29[/TD][TD]194[/TD][TD]267[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]30[/TD][TD]199[/TD][TD]276[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]
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Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
No, my justification was that a particular IQ score would have the same theoretical probability of existing as a particular Intelligence score, so if the game we're playing is to compare the two things then we should take that into consideration. This has nothing to do with normal distribution per se, and the only reason I brought up normal distribution with reference to IQ was to explain how IQ is defined in terms of probability. The fact that you've responded mostly by challenging the validity of modeling IQ as a normal distribution is why I asked if you had actually read what I wrote. The way IQ itself is defined tells me that a given IQ score theoretically has a given probability. Questioning that assumption doesn't undermine my argument because doing so takes my argument completely out of context. I hope this is all much clearer now.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
We play D&D. Raises and animations are par for the course.
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