So a Keen Rapier Crits on....

[Klaus]

Of course, a middle ground in all this hoopla is to state the following:

Imp. Critical and keen effects stack, but no weapon may have a critical threat range greater than 15-20.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Of course, a middle ground in all this hoopla is to state the following:

Imp. Critical and keen effects stack, but no weapon may have a critical threat range greater than 15-20.

That heavily favours axes, picks, and scythes.

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

That heavily favours axes, picks, and scythes.

-Hyp.

Yup, and they are already favoured by the stacking due to the fact that 18-20/x4 is exactly equivalent to 12-20/x2, but only if all those numbers hit the enemy. Since 18 is much more likely to hit than 12, the /x4 weapon has a built-in advantage in most situations.

 

[argo]

I'd imagine that the opponants hps are the most important dynamic in the action sequence, after all a 50hp foe losing 10hps is less dramatic than if they had 20hps. I'm not a martial artist myself but I figure that watching a duel would be like watching rugby, the rubbish fighter is exposed by the better fighter that executes the basic maneauvers with sharper precision, pace & power (i.e. pressure). The 1st level fighter may well look skilled to the untrained observer & indeed is when compared to a non-proficient commoner.

Oh, your quite right that there are a lot of dynamics. My point was simply that I do not see anything inherently wrong with the "only-a-miss-or-a-threat" dynamic of the 12-20 crit range. Becuase there is a simple, logical and flavorful in-game explination for why a fighter can land nothing but misses and threats.

Later.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I'm not sure I'd say it is inherantly wrong, but in the miss/crit scenario the word "critical" hit is rather misleading when criticals occur so frequently.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'm not sure I'd say it is inherantly wrong, but in the miss/crit scenario the word "critical" hit is rather misleading when criticals occur so frequently.

It's still critical, but the warrior is good at striking consistent critical blows, like the Rogue, who can strike a vital spot 100% of the time and Sneak Attack while flanking.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Well there is a bit of difficulty describing the critical hit with a hp system. A 20hp fighter hit for 30 damage could be described as being decapitated which surely you'd agree is a critical hit from an observers opinion. Then we've got the 20hp fighter being critically hit for 10pts which could be described as a nasty but not lethal slash to the throat. It is all a bit difficult describing critical hits without taking the current (& even the maximum) hps into the equation.

I sure would have gotten irritated with a constant stream of standard "critical" hits from a 12+ threat that I would not refer to them as criticals at all. Actually, it never came to this back in the day, but I'd ask the player to simply work out a flat bonus. Off hand it's something like 10% for martial weapons but I'd have to crunch the numbers.

 

[Storm Raven]

I'm not sure I'd say it is inherantly wrong, but in the miss/crit scenario the word "critical" hit is rather misleading when criticals occur so frequently.

Really? Is there something in the definition of the word "critical" that mandates rarity?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Really? Is there something in the definition of the word "critical" that mandates rarity?

Well, the definition uses the word "event" which does allude to some idea of rarity. The fact that the default threat range is only a 20 could also signify rarity. So, FreeTheSlaves has rules-based reasons to make that statement.

A 20hp fighter hit for 30 damage could be described as being decapitated...

Actually, no it couldn't be described as such. This supposed flavor description creates a HUGE change in game. Suddenly, the fighter cannot be raised from the dead, he must be resurrected. That's a significant difference. Only use such descriptions on NPCs or monsters that you know will not be raised. If you use this on a PC and don't also houserule raised dead, you're creating a world of difference for the player.

 

[Storm Raven]

Well, the definition uses the word "event" which does allude to some idea of rarity.

I'm still not following this logic. The word "event" now means rare?

The fact that the default threat range is only a 20 could also signify rarity. So, FreeTheSlaves has rules-based reasons to make that statement.

Except that the threat range can be expanded, even under the 3.5e rules, which means it isn't quite that rare. And many weapons have a larger threat range than 20 to begin with to boot.

I'm just not seeing where the word "critical" in critical hit necessarily mandates "rare".