So, about those halflings...

How would you like 4E halflings?

  • Current 3E style

    Votes: 126 46.2%
  • Hobbity types of yesteryear

    Votes: 90 33.0%
  • An entirely new type of halfling

    Votes: 20 7.3%
  • Remove them from the PHB altogether

    Votes: 37 13.6%

Celebrim said:
But the fact that they don't bring the kewl, doesn't in any way actually address or even counter my point as to why D&D has gotten away from the Tolkien inspired halfling appearance and flavor. I don't think it has anything to do with making it easier to think of reasons why halflings have gone adventuring, because any excuse you could use for a human works just as well for a Hobbit.
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halfling are now a nomadic race, rather than just agoraphobic gardeners. And the reason why they changed their outlook is that the old ones reeked of Tolkien rip-off. Deal with it : there is no way WotC will use hobbits in its game.
Humanity at large is not made ONLY of gardeners. Sure, there are people keeping to their houses, like the hobbits do. But there are professional warriors (because human are warlike, something hobbits are not), there are explorers (because humans are often struck by wanderlust, something hobbits are not), there are researcher (which translate into wizards) because humans are realy curious (something hobbit are not, as soon as it's something else than gossip).
Your argument that "any excuse you could use for a human works just as well for a Hobbit" does not hold water, because humans don't need any excuse to go adventuring. While hobbits do.
Hail the halflings !
 

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Aloïsius said:
halfling are now a nomadic race, rather than just agoraphobic gardeners. And the reason why they changed their outlook is that the old ones reeked of Tolkien rip-off. Deal with it : there is no way WotC will use hobbits in its game.

Errr...whatever.

Humanity at large is not made ONLY of gardeners.

The vast majority of humans who have ever lived were subsistance farmers. I recently heard that it was estimated that for the first time in human history, less than 50% of the world's population was now farmers.

In any event, a close examination of the text finds that there was much more to the Shire than mere farmers. They had coal mines, chalk mines, brick masons, stone masons, merchants, millers, rope makers, carpenters, weavers, sherriffs, border guards, and every other sort of craft or trade that you'd expect to find in a medieval human community. They even had a knightly warrior lord, 'The Thain', though most of the Shire seemed to have forgotten why they had one during a period of long peace.

Sure, there are people keeping to their houses, like the hobbits do. But there are professional warriors (because human are warlike, something hobbits are not), there are explorers (because humans are often struck by wanderlust, something hobbits are not), there are researcher (which translate into wizards) because humans are realy curious (something hobbit are not, as soon as it's something else than gossip).

Hobbits are presented as somewhat idealized humanity. Nevertheless, the non-warlike state of the Hobbits in the LotR is clearly a result of current social conditions, and not a racial indisposition against violence. At the end of the story, not only are the heroes quite martial indeed, but Frodo finds himself needing to restrain several Hobbits from committing atrocities in the midst of battle against thier former tormentors. I dare say that that suggests that the Hobbits are no less warlike than than any human culture without a strong martial tradition, and probably more warlike than cultures on the extremes of human behavior like the Amish. So no, the evidence is that the Hobbits aren't racially defined by anything not present in equivalent human cultures.

As for Wanderlust, it doesn't seem to strike Hobbits in general, except that it does seem to generally strike the Hobbit aristocratic class - The Tooks, the Brandybucks, and thier relations. Which is hardly suprising, because thoughout human history its always the bored leisure class that goes travelling. While wandering about may seem perfectly natural to you in a fantastically wealthy cosmopolitian mobile society, it is hardly the natural behavior of people living in rural villages throughout human history - most of whom would have been born, lived, and died and never ventured beyond 8-10 miles of thier birthplace.

As for curiousity, the intellectual curiousity and desire to know is not nearly as universal to the human race as you describe and when it is present is generally considered as 'wierd' as it would have been considered amongst Hobbits of the shire. The learning - even so much as literacy - which cultivates that curiousity isn't particularly common in human history, and certainly not until recently amongst rural farmers.

Your argument that "any excuse you could use for a human works just as well for a Hobbit" does not hold water, because humans don't need any excuse to go adventuring. While hobbits do.

Really? So, how many times have you picked up a rifle and gone looking for danger in some hostile corner of the Earth? Joined the military have you? Astronaut? Worked on a fishing boat off Alaska just for the fun of it? Arctic explorer? How much adventuring of any sort do you actually do, and how much hardship and risk of life and limb are you really attracted to?
 
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Much prefer the hobbity flavor.

As for humans being widely traveled for no reason, that isn't true at all. Humans need to earn money, desire more living space, have to hide from the authorities, ditch an unhappy marriage, cut the apron strings, whatever. Those are reasons, good ones, why anyone, human, hobbit, elf or dwarf, would take up the profession of "adventurer" (aka "Murderous Hobo").


As for 1e halflings being pudgy:
 

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Celebrim said:
Really? So, how many times have you picked up a rifle and gone looking for danger in some hostile corner of the Earth? Joined the military have you? Astronaut? Worked on a fishing boat off Alaska just for the fun of it? Arctic explorer? How much adventuring of any sort do you actually do, and how much hardship and risk of life and limb are you really attracted to?
Looking for danger is not adventuring. Adventurers are not looking for dangers. They are looking for gold. They are looking for the unknown. They are looking to fight for a cause. None of those behavior sound hobity, while it's indeed a constant of human behavior. Sure, not all humans show this behavior. But a lot of them. Same thing about war, science or arts. Think about the people who created the USA. Think about the crusades, think about Gengis Khan and Magellan, think about Isaac Newton, Darwin or Livingstone. Could you see them as hobbits ? Thousands of them at each generation ? Frodo and his compagnons were the exception, the unbelievable, exception. Adventurers in human society are not unbelievable : they just are the minority.

The vast majority of humans who have ever lived were subsistance farmers. I recently heard that it was estimated that for the first time in human history, less than 50% of the world's population was now farmers.
You forget that human history is only 5 or 6 thousand year old. And that humans exist since... 90 000 years ? Among them, the vast majority were a nomadic existance. Our ancestors crossed the bering straight, colonised Australia, followed mammoths in Siberia, settled the jungle of Amazonia, the Island of the Pacific and the heigths of Himalaya. The hobbits live in the shire and in Bree. If the majority of human beeing are now sedentary, that's because being nomad is not possible anymore (just look at the gipsy...). The Earth is full, while the middle earth is empty.

Anyway, hobbits are not human, they are not an adventuring race, and their flavor is so closely tied to Tolkien work that I don't want them in my game (and I don't want noldor or immortal perfect celestial elves neither... I hope the eladrins are not that)

Hobbits are not D&D. They are MERP.
 

One Small Race to Rule Them All

The worst thing in 3E is that there are both gnomes and halflings: its redundant and uninteresting. So even though we'll surely see the gnomes in PH2, the fact that they're not in PH1 is great news.

Given that we'll only have one short race, I'd hope that WOTC will make them such that they're easy to adapt to any campaign. Let halflings be kender, hobbits, or even lawn gnomes I say!
 


If I had to pick one, I'd go with the new halflings. I think I may even have played a 3rd edition halfling once or twice, which is more than I can say of the hobbit flavored variety.

I just can't see hobbity halflings as being a winning direction. They've been unpopular for years with at least a decent chunk of the fanbase, and you can only go so far in blatantly ripping off Tolkien before the lawyers get involved again. I can't say which group is larger, but the pro-hobbit side isn't exactly dominating the poll here, for what it's worth.

And I'm sure that on the designer side, Wizards is probably a lot more interested in creating their own fantasy IP than seeing how far they can get away with copying LOTR.
 

Andor said:
I am now terrified of your halflings. I'd rather meet the ones from Athas.

Wait until your PC gets stopped on the road by the fat halfling Sheriff, who rants about a "failure to communicate" and how you will "respect his authori-tie!"
 


GreatLemur said:
Has everybody forgotten that we've already seen a 4e halfling?

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They're short humans with jheri curls.

I know that's supposed to be a halfling, but I can't see anything that really denotes it as such. Had I not known that was supposed to be a halfling, I would have thought it to be a human. The art isn't bad, but the hair and the face just aren't to my liking.

YMMV, of course. ;)
 

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