So is an 18-year-old elf in diapers?

[barsoomcore]

Heck, go on the rug yourself, and keep rubbing their nose in it.

Smack them with a newspaper. Or keep a watergun handy to squirt them with when they get out of line.

It's possible I dislike elves.

 

[sparxmith]

They can be housetrained, but it takes time. If they go on the rug, just rub their nose in it until they learn.

Which takes about 80 years. The best way to house train them is to put them in the woods. That way, they're in the normal environment, and if they do go--you just rake it over with a little dirt.



Seriously though, elves are not stupid. It's just that their culture is different. Elves not reaching adulthood till 100, is like human's not reaching adulthood until 18/21. A thousand years ago (in europe), or 300 years ago (in the America's), children were considered adulthood at puberty. A 15 year old boy/man was considered responsible enough to start a family, go to war, etc. His girl/woman was probably only 13. And they both were considered adults. Compare that to today, when people under the age of 18 have no legal standing as an adult, people under 21 can't decide to drink (or gamle in some states), and people under 25 can't be trusted by the insurance company to drive safely or be elected to the Representatives according to the Constitution. It's a cultural bias. As life expectancy progresses, the age of Majority is pushed later and later.

For a society where people can live to be 500 before retiring to live another 500 years in retreat, 100 years seems very short. According to the storybooks associated with D&D, elves are supposed to be much more far-sighted in their planning than humans. This level of maturity only comes with time. These same story books indicate that the younger elves are more rash and prone to not taking the long view on actions. Actually, they act quite a bit like humans. And this, as far as elven society is concerned, is a sign of immaturity.

An 18 year old elf is probably physically mature, at least full grown, just hasn't mastered being an Elf. I don't think that they'd seem retarded, or too slow to grasp the facts of a situation: they just wouldn't react with the necessary forethought. I think that Thornir's wife had the right idea, whether that elf is 18 or 70. (But granted, the 70 year old would be much more adept at adulthood thant he 18 year old would be.)


Just my 2 coppers,

Sparxmith

 

[el-remmen]

How does a society like that function? They have to care for children for 70 years or so?

Well, they are a long-lived race - maybe it is the role of the 600-year olds to take care of them?

Or maybe they are raised collectively, as in the whole "it take a village to raise a child" philosophy?

Maybe it is just too alien for us to conceive of, with maturity occuring at different rates or in different areas, allowing them some responsibilites as they get older, but not others?

Maybe the great portion of it is adolescence (from 13 to 90 or something) - similar to how you might have a summer job or could go out on your own when you are a teenager- but for the most part they remain the dependents of a household?

Etc. . . Etc. . .

 

[Monte At Home]

There was an interesting recent study that talked about Neanderthal development and how they matured faster than humans, whom they would have potentially lived right next to. It talked about how 3 year old neanderthals might have played with 5 and 6 year old human children, because in size and development they would have been the same. By age 14 or so, they would be adults--not just because they needed to grow up fast in their harsh lifestyle, but because they literally would have reached full physical maturation.

There's a short synopsis of the report here:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/04/28/neanderthal.ap/index.html

 

[Janx]

I concur with the D20dwarf. I have a hard time imagining a 70 year old being more immature and "amazed" at all the new things they see. Frankly, I'd expect anybody who is 70 years old to have seen more than any well traveled human.

Though you could certainly argue for a slower development, I wouldn't make it too slow. Maybe so it takes 50 years to reach full physical and mental maturity, and then the elves spend 50 years studying, relaxing, etc. before joining the adult workforce.

The real problem with long development time before a race becomes a "PC" is that you'd expect a 100 year old elf to come with some levels. Considering how in a high action campaign, that same 100 year elf can go from 1st to 20th level in 1 campaign year.

So in retrospect, stick to a 20 year maturity cycle for all PC races and leave it at that (heck it gives elves 80 more years of lifespan too).

Janx

 

[milotha]

Alternatively, you could view it as a societal thing. Since elves live much longer than humans, they achieve a much greater level of maturity and understanding of the world around them than humans do. Thus an 30 year old elf would be viewed as emotionally/mentally imature to other elves, but to other humans he might not appear that way. Kinda like a 40 year old human would view a 16 year old kid. It's not that they are in diapers, it's just that they are really naive.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Some creatures, like dogs, mature very rapidly and have relatively short lives. Others, like humans, mature somewhat slowly and have relatively long lives. On earth, there are only three species of mammals where the females typically live for decades past menopause--humans, pilot whales, and one species of elephant. All these species have large bodies, large brain-to-body size ratios, and in all of them the elder female plays an important role in the society.

In the whales and elephants, it doesn't take long for the individual to mature to adulthood, not like it does in humans. Using the human as the base case to compare other species to might not be all that appropriate (given how unusual we are compared to all the other mammals--not to mention other creatures).

I suppose there's no reason why elves can't mature at a rate similar to humans (i.e. reach maturity between 15 and 20), mature at a rate similar to most other mammals (i.e. reach maturity within a few years), or mature at a very, very slow rate (i.e. reach maturity at 70 or whatever).

From the perspective of internal consistency in any given campaign, I suppose it's up to the DM and what the DM wants out of elves.

Dave

 

[Dark Jezter]

Heck, go on the rug yourself, and keep rubbing their nose in it.

Smack them with a newspaper. Or keep a watergun handy to squirt them with when they get out of line.

It's possible I dislike elves.

You aren't the only one.

I just wish I could remember the location of Forrester's rant about elves. It's been a long time since I've read it, but I remember his reasons for disliking that particular fantasy race were quite similar to my own.

 

[d20Dwarf]

Of course it's up to the DM.

But I just can't imagine a species of creature that after 70 years has only a tenuous grasp of the things around him. Unless there's a magic switch in his brain functioning that occurs around maturity, that would mean the creature would be very slow to learn, have thought processes so alien to humanity that it would be very difficult to roleplay them, and interac with the world in a fundamentally different way from how we understand things.

I guess I just think the core races have brain functions close to humans so that we as players can understand them enough to roleplay. Can you imagine trying to roleplay someone whose brain did not classify objects the way ours do, leading to repetition of mistakes for years before the brain was able to make the connection between good and bad. A 40-year-old elf, for instance, might still be touching hot stoves, because his thought processes developed so slowly. It's just too funky for me.

 

[Ogrebear]

Personally I have reduced Elven lifespan down to mearly 120 years. Humans only live to 40-50, Orcs 30 tops, Dwarves 80-100, and the small races about 50 years.

The reason? Simple- I think that for a Human player to try and roleplay something as Alien as a 100+ year old near-immortal is impossible to do- I have seen many many attempts fail. By giving Elves a maturity cycle and life span similar to what a real world Human can understand the roleplaying has improved, and my players have become far more interested in the societal setup that makes my Elves what they are and not some cheep Tolkein/Sidhe rip off.

Just by 2p sterling.