So that's it for 4th edition I guess?

[Tony Vargas]

I'd like to add a last comment that I think it is unfair at this stage to say that WotC is killing 4e. Why would they do that?

Because it's a logical business decision. 4e fans have nowhere to go after WotC kills 4e. However annoyed they may be, there will be nothing coming out for 4e going forward, while there will be shiny new stuff for 5e. They can count on a fair proportion of them to start buying 5e for that reason alone. Plus, if there are 'brand loyal' D&Ders left, they brand-loyally made the switch to 4e and can be counted on doing the same for 5e. OTOH, to win back the 3.5 set, they not only have to, on some level, start producing 3.5 again and label it "NEXT," but also need to symbolically kill 4e to make things rights. Unless they do, 3.5 fans can just keep buying Pathfinder, and that would represent 'lost revenue' and thus failure.

They are reprinting 1e and 2e and 3.5 books and talking about bringing back pdfs ... and you really think they will shoot themselves in the foot by alienating 4e fans by somehow killing their access to the game they enjoy?? I can't see that happening.

Yes. I guess they figure it's better than shooting themselves in the head by alienating 3.5 and classic D&D fans again.

 

[cavalier973]

The first D&D product I purchased (apart from computer games) was the D&D Basic Game (3rd edition rules; the one with the 16 miniatures). Soon after, I purchased the new 4th edition Starter Kit. I tried both versions with my brother-in-law and his girlfriend, neither of whom had ever played any RPG at all, and they preferred the 4th edition version. I relate this story as a reminder that 4th edition was, I think, partly designed with an eye to getting new people into the hobby.

Don't know how successful they were; I like 4e, especially the Essentials line, but I don't really play that often (my kids are the only gaming partners I have). If I actually played Pathfinder, then I might like it better, but I think I prefer the simpler, exception-based rules of 4e to the complex game rules that seem to characterise 3.x. Also, my primary experience with 3.x that included actually playing with other people was the Neverwinter Nights modules, which was usually the PvP modules (War of the Rings, Mike's Battle of the Dragons), in which I was being perpetually pwned, regardless of what class/build I used. That experience sort of soured me on 3rd edition, fairly or not.

But to get back to the main question: "Is 4th edition dead?" Well, some others have made some good points about the important role that DDI played in managing the game, but I think that the tools offered on DDI can be emulated rather well (perhaps better!) by dedicated fans. I'm no computer genius by any means, but I developed (and unfortunately lost) a spreadsheet program that automated the character sheet. It used the two "Heroes of" books, and was pretty clever, if I do say so myself. When I typed in the character's class and race, it automatically calculated the attack and defense bonuses; when I put in particular feats, it did the same. When I leveled the character up, it automatically recalculated the new stats.
My point is that, if a non-computer-programming schlub like me can do something that complex, then I'm sure that there are plenty of more highly skilled members of the 4e fan community that can do greater and higher things.

4e will die only if we allow it to die.

 

[B.T.]

When 4e was first announced and 3e fans complained about it, we were given snark about how "WotC is coming to burn your books and replace them with 4e!" Now that 5e is in the works, it seems that the 4e fans are having a similar reaction, to which I will reply:

WotC is "killing" 4e as much as they "killed" 3e. You will still have all your 4e materials to work with. I'm sure someone at some point will release a Pathfinder for 4e. Chin up.

 

[Cadence]

I'm no computer genius by any means, but I developed (and unfortunately lost) a spreadsheet program that automated the character sheet. It used the two "Heroes of" books, and was pretty clever, if I do say so myself.. I'm sure that there are plenty of more highly skilled members of the 4e fan community that can do greater and higher things.

I'm sure someone at some point will release a Pathfinder for 4e. Chin up.

As noted in previous posts, WotC can get pretty cease-and-desistee if you tread on their intellectual property. For example Crystal Keep took down all of their really nice summary files of the non-OGL 3.5 stuff.

Pathfinder has the advantage that everything in it is OGL. LL and Osric have the advantage that B/X and AD&D games were to some extent nested inside the 3.5 SRD. A 4e clone has a harder task in front of it with replicating all the AEDU powers and that a bunch of the classes and races are non 3.5 SRD. (Unless you just want something like the basic system outline, with none of the particulars).

Its a big reason I'm open to playing just about any game... but I'm not really interested in sinking time into DMing/world building for anything that doesn't have an OGL equivalent.

Anyway, I'm hoping for you 4e-ers that they keep that basic support up and running and keep the books in print via .pdf. (I'm wondering if waiting until a year after 5e is out to put all the 4e stuff in electronic-print makes the best business sense for them.)

 

[Quickleaf]

About the fear that WotC will take down DDi or remove 4e stuff from DDi... They've stated publicly that they intend to keep DDi and existing 4e stuff available. Anyone remember the link or about when they said that?

Look at all the 3e stuff they kept up online. Why would you think they'd do something different when it comes 4e? It's certainly possible but it wouldn't be my baseline assumption.

Now if they had promised something about an in-house software program they were developing, then heck yeah, be skeptical...but in this case it seems like needless worry.

 

[DEFCON 1]

You know... if all you 4E people actually bought all the books they produced like you were supposed to... they wouldn't have needed to start the switch to 5E like they did.

#actuallystilloneofthe4Epeople

 

[Obryn]

When 4e was first announced and 3e fans complained about it, we were given snark about how "WotC is coming to burn your books and replace them with 4e!" Now that 5e is in the works, it seems that the 4e fans are having a similar reaction, to which I will reply:

Some are, yeah. And they're either immune to irony, or weren't around for it. I'm basically taking my own advice from 4 years ago: My stuff will still work perfectly fine; I shouldn't whine about it.

In fact, I think it's a good thing Next is coming around, because we can always use more D&D. Even if it's not a D&D I myself care for.

-O

 

[ppaladin123]

All I want is a final errata document that fixes some of the stupid flaws in the game:

Non-essentials melee classes can't make basic attacks with their primary ability (rogues, battleminds, avengers, etc.)

Con-secondary druids and shaman have no way to get armor sufficient to survive.

Various racial abilities still use the original, poor scaling and were not updated when WotC updated the game math.

Players have to spend their first several feats on improved defenses, expertise, superior implements, etc.

These are all easily house-ruled bit it would be nice to see WotC add that final polish and release a "definitive" rule-set.

 

[pauljathome]

About the fear that WotC will take down DDi or remove 4e stuff from DDi... They've stated publicly that they intend to keep DDi and existing 4e stuff available. Anyone remember the link or about when they said that?

An unfortunate fact of life is that companies (not just Hasbro) very often promise that they will support things for ever and ever (especially when they announce new products competing with their old products) but later cut support anyway.

Its not even necessarily dishonesty. At the time the promise is made the people making it might well mean it. But, some time later, different people looking at the then current sales numbers will come to a different decision. At that later point the promise has little weight in the decision. It usually has SOME weight. Just not too much

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

WotC is "killing" 4e as much as they "killed" 3e. You will still have all your 4e materials to work with.

Assuming:

1) you are not one of those people whose entire or the majority of their 4Ed material is not DDI only and/or

2) WotC- and such successors in interest as there may be in the next 30+ years- actually do keep that 4Ed DDI material online all that time.