So, Wandavision?

[Staffan]

But, of course, we also know (if Monica was correct) that Wanda can’t create matter from nothing. Conclussion: Wanda must have pulled the matter that became Vision and her kids from a different place.

On the other hand, creating matter from nothing is one of the things the Scarlet Witch specifically can do, at least according to Agatha.

 

[Rune]

Hardly. Do remember your D&D schools of magic! Agatha demonstrated transmutation. So, some normal, base material could be transmuted into vibranium for the purpose, like spinning straw into gold. Getting mere physical matter for a body, even an unusual one, does not require breaching the barriers between worlds.

Now, the animus for her kids, that (especially considering the original comics) probably required reaching out to elsewhere.

On the other hand, creating matter from nothing is one of the things the Scarlet Witch specifically can do, at least according to Agatha.

Good points.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

A few years ago, some guys were drag-racing through a residential neighbourhood. One jumped the curb and killed two kids playing in the front yard. He kept saying over and over how it was an accident, how he didn't mean to kill those kids.

Terrible comparison. She wasn’t willfully doing something she knew was dangerous and could reasonably end in harm to innocents.

 

[BRayne]

Yeah but Banner has the advantage of being one of the genius science bros whose an expert in biochemistry, medicine (physician) and gamma physics and during Nortons era was shown to be actively practicing breath control techniques and playing with pipettes and purple test tubes to find a cure to his problem.
Wanda doesnt have that training and up to and including last Friday hadnt shown much control of her emotional outburst at all.

Unlike Banner she hasnt gone away from civilisation so she can find a cure, Wanda has gone so she can read the most dangerous book possible which has historically been all but guaranteed to cause chaos and hellish doom for anyone silly enough to open it

She went to go learn about her power from the one source that she knows has information on it in a place she is unlikely to encounter stressors or affect many people if she does. The fact that the book is generally bad news to those who read it is a separate thing.

 

[Eric V]

Terrible comparison. She wasn’t willfully doing something she knew was dangerous and could reasonably end in harm to innocents.

No. She didn't bother to find out. She didn't care. It was all about her own grief. And I'm sorry, but when you're that powerful, you have a responsibility to care to find out.

Look, she was making the town go into a 50s sitcom. She knew she was doing that. What did she think it was doing to the populace? It's mind control at a minimum. She might not have known, but it's because she didn't care to know.

Watch the scene where she emerges to confront SWORD. She warns them to back off and let her be in her home...that's all she cares about.

...ok, but what about all the innocents in there, forced to abandon their lives (remember, there's a little girl stuck in her room for 8 days and her mom can't reach her) being mind-raped the whole time? Nope, doesn't matter. She's grieving.

Ok, let's hope she doesn't screw any other people up while she's off not getting therapeutic help and reading the freakin' Darkhold on her own with no guidance.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Yeah, okay.

I am actually not saying she needs to be found guilty in a court of law. I am saying she needs to be held accountable, and take responsibility. Those people who get off with the poorly-named insanity defense? They rarely get to just go back to whatever crazy sh!t they were doing before; they just don't go to jail. There are still stipulations of therapy, etc.

I mean, really: the episode ended and we're like "Hey, she had unprocessed grief so it's not her fault. Now let her fly off to continue to not address her grief and let's all just hope she doesn't enslave a town again."

My criticism is of the writing of the show that they are making this seem reasonable. Someone with that much power, who is that unstable has a responsibility to curtail it and her grief that causes it to go ker-plooey. You know how we know that? The Incredible Hulk. Huge power capable of disaster based on his emotions. Years of comics of Banner trying to get rid of it and trying to have as much emotional control as possible (a great little scene in the Norton movie). But no, they write Wanda as not accountable, and I think that writing is childish.

And who would hold her accountable? And how? I could see them doing a second Sokovian Accords plot line, where Wanda's actions in Westview are reviewed by the United Nations, but what would they do? They don't have the power to stop Wanda from doing anything, and likely don't know who the right people to contact for this matter are (Doctor Strange). The only thing Strange has over Wanda is his knowledge of magic, Wanda has the brute force. If they tried to send Strange to try and involuntarily take Wanda into a magic prison (Marvel's Azkaban. Mazkaban, anyone?), the battle that ensues would very likely have reality-shaking events, and after the events of the Snap/Blip, I think the people of the MCU have had enough trauma within the past 5 years to allow one rogue superhero to go off the radar so long as she isn't harming them in any way.

My point is not that she should be free of consequence, it's that she both has already faced most of those consequences (losing her family and dream home), that the consequences are likely unneeded, that there is likely no good way to try to enforce these consequences, and it is likely more dangerous for the world if they try to enforce these unnecessary consequences than by just letting Wanda go for a bit. It's not a matter of should, it's more of the practicality of trying to enforce some kind of "punishment", whether that be therapy, education in magic, or imprisonment. (Like I have said before, I also think Wanda has already gotten a significant amount of the consequences that would be warranted by her actions here.)

(Granted, I would be cool if Doctor Strange 2 skipped over a lot of this and just started with the UN in a room with Wanda and Doctor Strange basically ordering Wanda to house arrest with Strange as her mentor.)

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Ok, let's hope she doesn't screw any other people up while she's off not getting therapeutic help and reading the freakin' Darkhold on her own with no guidance.

In general, I am a pessimist, but in this case I am hopeful for the character's ability to not harm people while off on her own in the middle of the woods. She's reading the Darkhold to learn about the Scarlett Witch in order to master her powers. Her intentions are good, and the book could mention the Sorcerer Supreme and how to find him.

She needs help, she doesn't need punishment, even if the punishment is for a good cause. It's going to need to be voluntary. If the character needs a bit of time to read in the woods before turning herself in to the authorities, I would hardly fault that as dangerously reckless or unsafe.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

It is silly to compare the damage or harm she did to what other superheroes have done elsewhere in the MCU because of one big difference. All the others knew what they were doing and how they were using their powers. It was their conscious choice to take the actions they did. Wanda uses Chaos Magic. It, and the Scarlet Witch force within her, control her more than she controls it. Chaos Magic warps and distorts what she wants or desires to do with her powers into results that do the job, but are not always the best outcome for everyone involved. She came back from the Snap, tracked down Vision's body, realized he was really gone, fell into despair, drove to Westview, to the building lot Vision had bought for them, had a total breakdown resulting in the feeling of emptiness, etc, and then was suddenly existing in the sitcom version of Westview, created by her subconscious/Chaos Magic. It is the closest thing to a temporary insanity defense the MCU would give her in a courtroom and she would be found not guilty because of it, just like cases are in the real world when that defense is found legitimate. That would not stop the civil lawsuits, though, that would demand financial compensation for the pain and suffering the people of the town went through.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Look, she was making the town go into a 50s sitcom. She knew she was doing that. What did she think it was doing to the populace? It's mind control at a minimum. She might not have known, but it's because she didn't care to know.

No, she literally didn’t know. It’s...a major and explicit part of the plot.

 

[Rabulias]

If they handle it well, that won't be a major concern. Of course people will complain about there being an intelligent, arrogant man coming to clean up the mess an emotional woman made (which has been mentioned before in this thread), but the amount of backlash from it will really come from how they deal with it.

A man who was mentored and trained by a woman.