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So, Wandavision?

Campbell

Legend
Which also raises the question why doesn’t the sorcerer supreme do the same thing for The Entire Planet :)

For one they are guardians of Earth, but it does not belong to them.

Also the Sorcerer Supreme is dedicated to protecting Earth from outside threats. The last thing they are looking to do in that process is suppressing the magic of latent sorcerers who could be brought into the fight. "No more sorcerers" is Mordo's cause - not Doctor Strange's cause.
 

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Or, you know, Ultron is there just to up the ante for one episode, and doesn't mean anything long term.
I suspect Ultron might be back just for this series finale, and killed off again in the same episode.

Also, notice how Agatha explains how the runes stop any other witch using their powers? Who wants to bet that this is used against Agatha in the final episode?

Villains: never ever explain to heroes how clever your evil trap is!
 

MarkB

Legend
Except that Wanda could not see the runes when Agatha tried to point them out to her and she would have no knowledge of the right ones to use or how to cast them. But if the power of the Phoenix ...... Scarlet Witch fully manifests in her, it will not matter what Agatha tries to do.
What do you mean? Wanda saw them just fine, she just didn't know what they were until Agatha told her.
 

I suspect that the plot will tie into the Nexus of all Realities, since it was teased in one of the commercials. It might be where Wanda is getting her powers from.

Agatha on the other hand, seems to be getting her powers from elsewhere. In the opening of the episode, we see how the coven uses blue magic. Agatha's power is purple, as if her coven powers are tainted. Perhaps from the book? According to Marvel lore, the Darkhold originates from the dark dimension. If this book is indeed the Darkhold, how did Agatha get it, and is this what turned her powers purple?

Although this episode shows us that Wanda had her powers even as a child, it is suggested that she taps into the powers of the mindstone, which is also when she sees the silhouette. It seems as if part of the mindstone's powers now exist in her, and that she used it to will Vision back into existence. But who is the woman she saw? The previous Scarlet Witch? Natalya Maximoff?
 

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Did someone say purple?
 

I'm still a bit fuzzy on the timeline of events though. Presumably, Agatha has been looking for the Scarlet Witch for some time now. And its not like Wanda has been keeping her powers a secret. But that still wouldn't explain how Agatha came to be inside Westview before S.W.O.R.D was even aware of the anomaly. She couldn't have known that Wanda would go to Westview, unless she was the one who left Wanda that property deed.

But even then, how was Agatha able to resist Wanda's reality warping powers? Is she naturally immune? I would presume not. The only way she would be immune, is if she made magical preparations before she either entered the anomaly, or before it even manifested. I suppose if she were the one that left the deed in Wanda's car, she could have prepped her own little purple sanctum underneath Westview.

But then what is her ultimate goal? I presume one of her goals was to locate and confirm Wanda as the Scarlet Witch. The other was to learn how she created the Hex. But it also seems she really tried everything she could to break Wanda out of her manufactured reality. Did she need to do this to learn what she wanted to learn?

If her goal is to feast on Wanda's powers, as she did on the magic of her coven, then why lure her a warded sanctum where she can't use her powers? Or why not allow the Hex to persist, feasting on its existence? Maybe she needed to know for sure that Wanda was the Scarlet Witch first?

At the end of the episode we do see Agatha face Wanda outside the sanctum, while holding her children captive, which may be a ploy to get Wanda to use her powers against her. But would Agatha even be able to handle the power of the mindstone, even if it is just a fraction of it? It also seems like a strategic error to show Wanda her sanctum and her magic book, if she intends to be Wanda's enemy. Such knowledge could easily be used against her.

Or will we see a twist, where Wanda teams up with Agatha against S.W.O.R.D?
 

MarkB

Legend
I'm still a bit fuzzy on the timeline of events though. Presumably, Agatha has been looking for the Scarlet Witch for some time now. And its not like Wanda has been keeping her powers a secret. But that still wouldn't explain how Agatha came to be inside Westview before S.W.O.R.D was even aware of the anomaly. She couldn't have known that Wanda would go to Westview, unless she was the one who left Wanda that property deed.

But even then, how was Agatha able to resist Wanda's reality warping powers? Is she naturally immune? I would presume not. The only way she would be immune, is if she made magical preparations before she either entered the anomaly, or before it even manifested. I suppose if she were the one that left the deed in Wanda's car, she could have prepped her own little purple sanctum underneath Westview.

But then what is her ultimate goal? I presume one of her goals was to locate and confirm Wanda as the Scarlet Witch. The other was to learn how she created the Hex. But it also seems she really tried everything she could to break Wanda out of her manufactured reality. Did she need to do this to learn what she wanted to learn?

If her goal is to feast on Wanda's powers, as she did on the magic of her coven, then why lure her a warded sanctum where she can't use her powers? Or why not allow the Hex to persist, feasting on its existence? Maybe she needed to know for sure that Wanda was the Scarlet Witch first?

At the end of the episode we do see Agatha face Wanda outside the sanctum, while holding her children captive, which may be a ploy to get Wanda to use her powers against her. But would Agatha even be able to handle the power of the mindstone, even if it is just a fraction of it? It also seems like a strategic error to show Wanda her sanctum and her magic book, if she intends to be Wanda's enemy. Such knowledge could easily be used against her.

Or will we see a twist, where Wanda teams up with Agatha against S.W.O.R.D?
I didn't get the impression that Agatha was looking for the Scarlet Witch - more that she just knew about the concept, sufficiently to be able to identify Wanda once she'd gone through her backstory.

I think the sequence of events would be roughly:

  • Agatha is off doing other things, just living her life, when she senses a massive burst of magic from Westview, and comes to investigate.
  • She uses her powers to protect herself when she enters the Hex. She's much less powerful than Wanda, but also far more experienced, and has actually studied magic, so it's not that surprising that she can protect herself.
  • She marvels at the scope of power on display, and wants to learn more about the person who's doing it, so she approaches Wanda but quickly realises that Wanda is caught up in her own fantasy world. She'll need to be snapped out of it before she can actually provide more detailed information.
  • Agatha ingratiates herself into Wanda's life, and attempts a series of decreasingly subtle interventions to pull her out of her fantasy world. At the same time she sets up her own sanctum in a nearby basement to ensure that she has a bastion if Wanda turns hostile.
  • Finally Wanda seems to be coming back to herself sufficiently to actually provide useful information if interrogated, so Agatha kidnaps her children and encourages her into Agatha's sanctum.
  • That's when she finds out how little Wanda actually knows. While she was aware of Wanda's status as an Avenger, she didn't know the source of her powers and had been working under the assumption that Wanda was a formally-trained practitioner. Startled to find that Wanda actually doesn't have any powerful spells or rituals that she can steal, Agatha instead endeavours to learn how she came to have such a degree of raw talent, by embarking upon a trip down memory lane with her.
  • It's only after this that Agatha makes the connection that Wanda is something called the Scarlet Witch, and it scares her.
 

Staffan

Adventurer
At the end of the episode we do see Agatha face Wanda outside the sanctum, while holding her children captive, which may be a ploy to get Wanda to use her powers against her.
Do we?

There's a subtle thing going on that I didn't notice until it was pointed out elsewhere: different places have different aspect ratios. Inside the hex started out as 4:3, and changed to 16:9 (or thereabouts — basically, it's full-screen on my monitor) when it changed to color. But the outside is (I think) 2.35:1 — at the very least, significantly wider than inside the hex. We see this as Wanda is entering Agatha's sanctum — it's somewhat subtle as the picture is fairly dark, but as she is approaching the sanctum we see black bars cover the top and bottom of the screen.

And then, move forward to Wanda hearing the cries of her children, she rushes out through a door into a white light and out on the street and sees Agatha having the kids on leashes... but we're still in 2.35:1 aspect ratio. I think this is still a thing that Agatha's showing Wanda, not something that's happening in reality.
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Good point. Maybe it is all an illusion, and Wanda is still inside Agatha's sanctum. I had not considered that yet.

Wanda's hands power up - which should not be possible within the sanctum. It would have to be part of the illusion.

Plus, as we saw in her origin - Agatha's shtick to take down other magicians is to let other practitioners fire at her, and then to use that channel to corrupt and draw out the opponent's energy until they are a withered husk. Agatha may be trying to do that again by making herself a huge target. If so, boy is that going to be a mistake. Sure, Agatha, drink from the fire hose. That'll work out well for you :/

I think the aspect ratios may be less about the physical location, and more about its relation to Wanda's state of mind. The sanctum and outside the Hex are reality. Wanda's mind is in reality now. Basically, the aspect ratio is "stuff got real".
 


Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Go back and watch that part again. The camera shows us the runes, but Wanda looks all confused, and Agatha, I am pretty sure, says something like "What? You can't see them?"
I thought she said something like, "What, you didn't see/notice them?" I got the impression that Wanda didn't know to look for them and/or wouldn't have recognized them if she had seen them.
 

MarkB

Legend
Go back and watch that part again. The camera shows us the runes, but Wanda looks all confused, and Agatha, I am pretty sure, says something like "What? You can't see them?"
It's not that she didn't see them, it's just that she didn't know what they meant - which Agatha couldn't understand, because she's never seen someone that strong with magic who's never received any training in it.
 

Staffan

Adventurer
Wanda's hands power up - which should not be possible within the sanctum. It would have to be part of the illusion.

Plus, as we saw in her origin - Agatha's shtick to take down other magicians is to let other practitioners fire at her, and then to use that channel to corrupt and draw out the opponent's energy until they are a withered husk. Agatha may be trying to do that again by making herself a huge target. If so, boy is that going to be a mistake. Sure, Agatha, drink from the fire hose. That'll work out well for you :/
My impression was not that this was a deliberate ploy on Agatha's part — she certainly doesn't seem happy with being assaulted the way you'd expect a villain with an absorption power to be. You'll also note that the charge leveled against her by the coven is "stealing magic above her age and station" and "practicing the darkest of magics" – nothing about what she actually did with the magic. If you'll allow me to provide an alternate interpretation of Agatha:

Young Agatha is a talented witch, and is taught by a coven of several witches including her own mother. She comes across some sort of Forbidden Knowledge and learns it, and the coven is aghast and terrified of her power. They likely believe that even if she hasn't done anything really bad yet, the Forbidden Knowledge will corrupt her, and decide to kill her before she becomes a threat they can't handle. You'll note that during the trial/execution, Agatha exclaims that she "cannot control it", and begs the coven to teach her. When the beams turn purple and start draining the coven, she looks surprised. Before her mother makes her final attempt on her life, Agatha begs her "Please, I can be good", but her mother rejects the possibility and attacks, sacrificing her life in vain. (As a side note, during this final attack there is a magic manifestation similar to a crown or tiara on Agatha's mother's brow, not entirely dissimilar to the headdress Scarlet Witch wears in the comics. I do not believe this to be a random coincidence, but I'm not sure what the meaning is - perhaps Agatha's mother was linked to some "opposite number" of the Scarlet Witch or something). This is what we know.

And sure, it's easy to go from there to assuming Agatha's goal with coming to Westview is to acquire Wanda's power. But I think that would be too easy. I could easily see young Agatha deciding to prove her mother wrong, by deciding that she can be good, and to also take it upon herself to seek out practicioners in similar situations and aid them and teach them (and possibly deal with them if it turns out they're too far gone). So, 230 years later, she detects an immense burst of magic over in New Jersey, and decides to investigate. She wards herself against the hex, and infiltrates it. She does assorted mischief, poking and prodding Wanda to see what's going on. As she can't figure it out, she resorts to summoning some form of simulacrum of Pietro, but apparently grabs/copies one from an alternate reality, and has him try to learn what happened from Wanda. Fietro pushes too far and Wanda rejects him, violently. So she decides to up the ante even more by kidnapping Wanda's children and use them as leverage to make Wanda show her her background, which leads Agatha to conclude that Wanda is the Scarlet Witch.

At this point, I believe Agatha sees herself in Wanda – a young witch with far more power than craft, one who doesn't even know how to create a sanctum. And yes, Agatha probably sees Wanda as a potential threat, but also as someone with a good heart, and someone who could be taught to do great deeds with that power.

Of course, Hayward's probably going to screw that up by sending in White Vision and mess with Wanda's stability even more.

I think the aspect ratios may be less about the physical location, and more about its relation to Wanda's state of mind. The sanctum and outside the Hex are reality. Wanda's mind is in reality now. Basically, the aspect ratio is "stuff got real".
Could be, but they've generally been pretty good about cinema = real world, regular widescreen = inside the hex. The only exception I can remember is the hex's expansion, but that could be because changing it during the "axiom wash" would draw attention to it and look REALLY weird.

Edit: it also takes a while to catch up when Monica pushes through the barrier, and doesn't start changing until she gets her bearings and start running inward.
 

It's not that she didn't see them, it's just that she didn't know what they meant - which Agatha couldn't understand, because she's never seen someone that strong with magic who's never received any training in it.
I thought she said something like, "What, you didn't see/notice them?" I got the impression that Wanda didn't know to look for them and/or wouldn't have recognized them if she had seen them.

Just rewatched that scene with closed captioning on and Agatha says " Didn't you notice? Basic protection spell. One on each wall?" Wanda looks around all confused, as if there is nothing there. Then Agatha says "No? Nothing?"

So I interpret that to mean Wanda does not see them at all, not that she sees them and just does not recognize them for what they are.

Maybe, just maybe, as Agatha is explaining to Wanda how they work, she also made them visible to her, but even if so, I still believe she could not see them before that.
 

Omand

Adventurer
So, slight digression, but where do people think Monica Rambeau is?

Is she a captive of Agatha along with the twins? Still frozen outside of the cellar entrance? Breaking a fake Pietro out of Agatha's control? Something else entirely?

I am sure she will have a part to play in the finale, but what?

Cheers :)
 

MarkB

Legend
Just rewatched that scene with closed captioning on and Agatha says " Didn't you notice? Basic protection spell. One on each wall?" Wanda looks around all confused, as if there is nothing there. Then Agatha says "No? Nothing?"

So I interpret that to mean Wanda does not see them at all, not that she sees them and just does not recognize them for what they are.

Maybe, just maybe, as Agatha is explaining to Wanda how they work, she also made them visible to her, but even if so, I still believe she could not see them before that.
Then why was Agatha surprised she couldn't see them? The only reason Wanda wouldn't be able to see them is if Agatha had made them invisible to her.

Your interpretation requires a stretch. Wanda seeing the symbols but not understanding them does not.
 

I have read before how turning on audio commentary for the blind can reveal stuff from scripts that we would otherwise have to guess at. I wonder if that would say anything more about that scene, one way or the other? Or was it something in additional subtitles for the deaf? I won't have time to test that until later tonight, but if someone else wants to give it a try and post any results, that would be cool.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
My impression was not that this was a deliberate ploy on Agatha's part — she certainly doesn't seem happy with being assaulted the way you'd expect a villain with an absorption power to be. You'll also note that the charge leveled against her by the coven is "stealing magic above her age and station" and "practicing the darkest of magics" – nothing about what she actually did with the magic. If you'll allow me to provide an alternate interpretation of Agatha:

Young Agatha is a talented witch, and is taught by a coven of several witches including her own mother. She comes across some sort of Forbidden Knowledge and learns it, and the coven is aghast and terrified of her power. They likely believe that even if she hasn't done anything really bad yet, the Forbidden Knowledge will corrupt her, and decide to kill her before she becomes a threat they can't handle. You'll note that during the trial/execution, Agatha exclaims that she "cannot control it", and begs the coven to teach her. When the beams turn purple and start draining the coven, she looks surprised. Before her mother makes her final attempt on her life, Agatha begs her "Please, I can be good", but her mother rejects the possibility and attacks, sacrificing her life in vain. (As a side note, during this final attack there is a magic manifestation similar to a crown or tiara on Agatha's mother's brow, not entirely dissimilar to the headdress Scarlet Witch wears in the comics. I do not believe this to be a random coincidence, but I'm not sure what the meaning is - perhaps Agatha's mother was linked to some "opposite number" of the Scarlet Witch or something). This is what we know.

And sure, it's easy to go from there to assuming Agatha's goal with coming to Westview is to acquire Wanda's power. But I think that would be too easy. I could easily see young Agatha deciding to prove her mother wrong, by deciding that she can be good, and to also take it upon herself to seek out practicioners in similar situations and aid them and teach them (and possibly deal with them if it turns out they're too far gone). So, 230 years later, she detects an immense burst of magic over in New Jersey, and decides to investigate. She wards herself against the hex, and infiltrates it. She does assorted mischief, poking and prodding Wanda to see what's going on. As she can't figure it out, she resorts to summoning some form of simulacrum of Pietro, but apparently grabs/copies one from an alternate reality, and has him try to learn what happened from Wanda. Fietro pushes too far and Wanda rejects him, violently. So she decides to up the ante even more by kidnapping Wanda's children and use them as leverage to make Wanda show her her background, which leads Agatha to conclude that Wanda is the Scarlet Witch.

At this point, I believe Agatha sees herself in Wanda – a young witch with far more power than craft, one who doesn't even know how to create a sanctum. And yes, Agatha probably sees Wanda as a potential threat, but also as someone with a good heart, and someone who could be taught to do great deeds with that power.

Of course, Hayward's probably going to screw that up by sending in White Vision and mess with Wanda's stability even more.


Could be, but they've generally been pretty good about cinema = real world, regular widescreen = inside the hex. The only exception I can remember is the hex's expansion, but that could be because changing it during the "axiom wash" would draw attention to it and look REALLY weird.

Edit: it also takes a while to catch up when Monica pushes through the barrier, and doesn't start changing until she gets her bearings and start running inward.

Thats my interpretation too, great summary
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Then why was Agatha surprised she couldn't see them? The only reason Wanda wouldn't be able to see them is if Agatha had made them invisible to her.

Your interpretation requires a stretch. Wanda seeing the symbols but not understanding them does not.

Yeah. I saw that not as "she literally could not see them". I think if they had wanted us to get that idea, they'd have shown it explicitly.

Wanda knows little or nothing about magic. She thinks she has superpowers. He is just boggled and scared by the whole situation.
 

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