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So, Wandavision?

I did. Did you? She wants Wanda’s raw power, just like what she drained from her coven. 🤷‍♂️
Sure she does. But that is a side thing. She also identifies Wanda a Scarlet Witch - the name for those very rare beings that can use Chaos Magic and hence defeat the Sorcerer Supreme. If the Sorcerer Supreme could use Chaos Magic himself he could hardly be trumped by someone who can use Chaos Magic could he!?

Wanda is also identified as a Nexus - look it up.
 

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MarkB

Legend
Sure she does. But that is a side thing. She also identifies Wanda a Scarlet Witch - the name for those very rare beings that can use Chaos Magic and hence defeat the Sorcerer Supreme. If the Sorcerer Supreme could use Chaos Magic himself he could hardly be trumped by someone who can use Chaos Magic could he!?

Wanda is also identified as a Nexus - look it up.
You're missing the point. If only Wanda could use chaos magic, Agnes wouldn't be able to suck out that magic and use it herself.

Therefore, the unique thing about the Scarlet Witch isn't her power source, it's her power level. She is simply stronger than the Sorcerer Supreme.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
You're missing the point. If only Wanda could use chaos magic, Agnes wouldn't be able to suck out that magic and use it herself.

Therefore, the unique thing about the Scarlet Witch isn't her power source, it's her power level. She is simply stronger than the Sorcerer Supreme.
Looking to the actual dialogue of the show, Agatha was amazed that Wanda had spells miles away on the edge of town operating on “autopilot” - ie Wanda was so powerful that she could subconciously cast and maintain multiple spells without having to concentrate

Thats something not even the Scorcerer Supreme can do
 

You're missing the point. If only Wanda could use chaos magic, Agnes wouldn't be able to suck out that magic and use it herself.
No. Type of magic is different to power of magic.
Therefore, the unique thing about the Scarlet Witch isn't her power source, it's her power level. She is simply stronger than the Sorcerer Supreme.
The dialogue in episode 8 is very clear. She is a Scarlet Witch because Chaos Magic, not because Very Powerful.
 

Keeping it in the family. Pointed out by my wife whilst watching our own 1970s reruns. This is Doctor Strange's mum:
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MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
As a side note, Elizabeth Olsen has stated that she is already filming the new Doctor Strange movie right now. I can't wait!
I hope there are theaters left near me by that point. I really want to see that movie. And Black Widow...
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Sure she does. But that is a side thing. She also identifies Wanda a Scarlet Witch - the name for those very rare beings that can use Chaos Magic and hence defeat the Sorcerer Supreme. If the Sorcerer Supreme could use Chaos Magic himself he could hardly be trumped by someone who can use Chaos Magic could he!?

Wanda is also identified as a Nexus - look it up.
I think you’re reading into what was said soemthing that isn’t necessarily there.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
You're missing the point. If only Wanda could use chaos magic, Agnes wouldn't be able to suck out that magic and use it herself.

Therefore, the unique thing about the Scarlet Witch isn't her power source, it's her power level. She is simply stronger than the Sorcerer Supreme.
Exactly.
Looking to the actual dialogue of the show, Agatha was amazed that Wanda had spells miles away on the edge of town operating on “autopilot” - ie Wanda was so powerful that she could subconciously cast and maintain multiple spells without having to concentrate

Thats something not even the Scorcerer Supreme can do
Yep, she is on a tier or power that no one else on earth can match.
 




I've been avoiding this thread so far because I was late in watching the show, but I just finished it last night. Overall, I liked it, but a couple of things bugged me.

How did Agatha end up in Westview? It's implied she was a citizen of the town when Wanda went there. Coincidence, stalking Wanda, or did she just magically insert herself there somehow? Did she arrive in Westview before or after Wanda's mental break?

Hayward's character was very disappointing. Oh, the leader of the powerful organization who originally acts like he's helping is actually an antagonist? Yawn. Done to death in the MCU. Not to mention, his role as antagonist only serves to take time and drama away from conflict with Agatha.

Also, I think this was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I don't think Hayward should have been arrested at the end. He's the leader of SWORD. Everything he did seems within the power of that organization, and the US government clearly let SWORD take over the operation. He may not have been moral, but I don't think he did anything prosecutable.

On the other hand, Darcy Lewis should obviously be arrested for assaulting Hayward. He was retreating/fleeing when she came from nowhere and rammed him with a truck. That was clearly attempted murder for revenge, zero chance for a self defense claim.

And, dang, those were some long credits for a TV show.
 

BRayne

Explorer
I've been avoiding this thread so far because I was late in watching the show, but I just finished it last night. Overall, I liked it, but a couple of things bugged me.

How did Agatha end up in Westview? It's implied she was a citizen of the town when Wanda went there. Coincidence, stalking Wanda, or did she just magically insert herself there somehow? Did she arrive in Westview before or after Wanda's mental break?

Hayward's character was very disappointing. Oh, the leader of the powerful organization who originally acts like he's helping is actually an antagonist? Yawn. Done to death in the MCU. Not to mention, his role as antagonist only serves to take time and drama away from conflict with Agatha.

Also, I think this was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I don't think Hayward should have been arrested at the end. He's the leader of SWORD. Everything he did seems within the power of that organization, and the US government clearly let SWORD take over the operation. He may not have been moral, but I don't think he did anything prosecutable.

On the other hand, Darcy Lewis should obviously be arrested for assaulting Hayward. He was retreating/fleeing when she came from nowhere and rammed him with a truck. That was clearly attempted murder for revenge, zero chance for a self defense claim.

And, dang, those were some long credits for a TV show.

Agatha said she detected the energy of Wanda's spellcasting and came to investigate. Hayward violated some article of the Sokovia Accords in creating White Vision which therefore means he interfered with a Federal Agent's investigation in handcuffing Jimmy.
 

Hayward violated some article of the Sokovia Accords in creating White Vision which therefore means he interfered with a Federal Agent's investigation in handcuffing Jimmy.
Did he violate the Sokovia Accords? I'm not being facetious here, I'm legitimately asking. The Accords prohibit creating AI. He didn't create AI, he just turned it on. Does that violate the Accords? And, lets be fair here, if Hayward violated the Accords activating the dead Vision, then Wanda clearly did as well by creating the new Vision in Westview. No one from the FBI seems to care about that.

Also, he kicked Jimmy off the SWORD base, which he clearly had government authority to do (if he didn't, the arrest would have happened 3-4 episodes earlier). After that, Jimmy was clearly trespassing and Hayward had all the authority he needed to handcuff him.

Furthermore, can the FBI actually arrest you for violating the Accords? I don't think so. It's an international agreement. There would be no handcuffing or being taken into custody without intervention from the US State Department. Certainly not the on-site arrest that we see.

And, most notably, did anyone actually know that Hayward turned Vision back on? We know, because we saw it (and SWORD people would). But none of the characters in the show actually know that. For all they know, White Vision could have been created by Agatha or Wanda, or simply accidentally. There's no witnesses and zero evidence.

Hayward is just a shoehorned designated villain. He just gets arrested because he's not friends with the protagonists.
 

hopeless

Explorer
From what I've read and heard that's just one of the problems with this series.

Another is the fact Wanda is the villain and instead of using Agnes to reveal she was responsible for Wanda's meltdown using her as the focus of the hex she planned but lacked the raw power for.
I still think they should have revealed Agatha kept the sorceror supreme and co from turning up as she was dealing with the situation.
Thus when she doesn't report back and they go looking for her that would be the reason Dr Strange gets involved.

It sounded like a good series just needed better writing and someone who understood they're setting Wanda up as the new Thanos and as it stands there's no reason to arrest that idiot unless he was actually disobeying orders when he unleashed White Vision.
 

BRayne

Explorer
Did he violate the Sokovia Accords? I'm not being facetious here, I'm legitimately asking. The Accords prohibit creating AI. He didn't create AI, he just turned it on. Does that violate the Accords? And, lets be fair here, if Hayward violated the Accords activating the dead Vision, then Wanda clearly did as well by creating the new Vision in Westview. No one from the FBI seems to care about that.

Also, he kicked Jimmy off the SWORD base, which he clearly had government authority to do (if he didn't, the arrest would have happened 3-4 episodes earlier). After that, Jimmy was clearly trespassing and Hayward had all the authority he needed to handcuff him.

Furthermore, can the FBI actually arrest you for violating the Accords? I don't think so. It's an international agreement. There would be no handcuffing or being taken into custody without intervention from the US State Department. Certainly not the on-site arrest that we see.

And, most notably, did anyone actually know that Hayward turned Vision back on? We know, because we saw it (and SWORD people would). But none of the characters in the show actually know that. For all they know, White Vision could have been created by Agatha or Wanda, or simply accidentally. There's no witnesses and zero evidence.

Hayward is just a shoehorned designated villain. He just gets arrested because he's not friends with the protagonists.

The specific thing violating the Sokovia Accords was "resurrecting Vision" per Jimmy in an earlier episode. Since the US signed and presumably ratified the Accords it is in fact US Federal law which means the FBI has jurisdiction plus Hayward admitted to Jimmy that he did it.
 

Did he violate the Sokovia Accords? I'm not being facetious here, I'm legitimately asking. The Accords prohibit creating AI. He didn't create AI, he just turned it on. Does that violate the Accords? And, lets be fair here, if Hayward violated the Accords activating the dead Vision, then Wanda clearly did as well by creating the new Vision in Westview. No one from the FBI seems to care about that.

Also, he kicked Jimmy off the SWORD base, which he clearly had government authority to do (if he didn't, the arrest would have happened 3-4 episodes earlier). After that, Jimmy was clearly trespassing and Hayward had all the authority he needed to handcuff him.

Furthermore, can the FBI actually arrest you for violating the Accords? I don't think so. It's an international agreement. There would be no handcuffing or being taken into custody without intervention from the US State Department. Certainly not the on-site arrest that we see.

And, most notably, did anyone actually know that Hayward turned Vision back on? We know, because we saw it (and SWORD people would). But none of the characters in the show actually know that. For all they know, White Vision could have been created by Agatha or Wanda, or simply accidentally. There's no witnesses and zero evidence.

Hayward is just a shoehorned designated villain. He just gets arrested because he's not friends with the protagonists.

He violated Vision's Will. He did the whole White Vision thing as his personal side project, breaking who knows how many laws and government protocols and rules to do so. Using government resources for a private project means embezzling or stealing those resources to rebuild Vision. All this was in those files that Darcy "illegally" hacked from Hayward's computer and emailed to Jimmy. So there is proof of all this for an arrest and trial.
 

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