So what your EPIC!

[arbados]

Am I missing something here? The impression I get from the masses and my own interpretation of Epic Level Characters in the ELH is that it seems to be suggested that an Epic Level Character would wipe the floor with a standard level character. By standard I am refering to a high level non-epic character of about 18th level.

Lets re-cap: When I reach 20th level what do I get:
- a+1 for all my saving throws.
- a +1 to attack bonus (no additional attacks).
- normal skill progression.
- the bonus feats which vary from class to class (and now I can choose an epic one, but if my memory serves me correctly I'm not sure if any classes get one at 20th level). If I was 21st I would get the normal progressive level feat (and I can choose an epic one).
- additional hp's.
-choice of an epic prestige class if I meet the requirements.

OK there are some pretty cool feats, but will epic toughness make you that much more powerful compared to my 18th level character. What I am trying to say is that advancement into epic levels doesn't instantly make you the killer of all "cannon fodder" of 19th level and below.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE THIS very much. I was worried that once my characters reached epic levels they would wipe the floor with everything in my Monster Manual. I tend to strongly disagree with that statement.

Yes, once an epic character reaches 27th level they should quite handily beat my 18th level character to a pulp, but wouldn't my 18th level character be able to do the same to a 9th level one?!
Both are 9 levels apart.

Just becasue you call them epic doesn't make all that big of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

What do you think?

 

[HEL Pit Fiend]

What I am trying to say is that advancement into epic levels doesn't instantly make you the killer of all "cannon fodder" of 19th level and below.

And who said it was supposed to? The power curve as you gain levels from 1 to 40 is constant. In other words, the power gain is the same going from 5th to 6th as it is from 20th to 21st as it is from 35th to 36th. It's all gradual.

 

[kreynolds]

<snip>

Why is this even here?

 

[Tewligan]

Re: Re: So what your EPIC!

Why is this even here?

Probably because he was asking if he was missing something, asking what other peoples' thoughts were about what he thought was a misconception, and because this is a message board about D&D rules - where else should it go? If his post wastes your valuable time, move on and save the snotty commentary.

 

[Crothian]

It's level 21 and higher, not level 20 and higher.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: So what your EPIC!

Probably because he was asking if he was missing something, asking what other peoples' thoughts were about what he thought was a misconception

It seemed to me that he wasn't asking about the rules, but about an overall feel the the rules and how they worked in play. Not really a rules question, but more of general one. That's why I asked.

and because this is a message board about D&D rules

See previous answer.

where else should it go?

IMO? General.

If his post wastes your valuable time, move on

Actually, no. His post doesn't waste my valuable time. I started browsing around the various threads, saw that one, kinda sitting out there all by itself, almost like it didn't belong, came in, and what do ya' know? It's not a rules question, but more of a general one. Again, that's why I asked.

and save the snotty commentary.

I wasn't snotty. I simply asked "Why is this even here?". Why did I ask? See first answer. Why didn't I ask? See previous answer. Tell you what. I'll make a deal with you. I won't be "snotty", even though I'm not being snotty in the first place, if you won't be so pissy and prone to jump to conclusions from now on. Deal?

 

[gfunk]

IIRC, one of the designers of the ELH (prior to its publication) pointed out something to the effect of:

When your 20th level paladin levels, he will not simply become a 21st level character. He will become epic and gain signficiant benefits.

Or something like that. I think it's clear that you need to gain at least a few epic levels to severely smack-down PCs >level 20. However, that's true at any level, right?

 

[Crothian]

IIRC, one of the designers of the ELH (prior to its publication) pointed out something to the effect of:

When your 20th level paladin levels, he will not simply become a 21st level character. He will become epic and gain signficiant benefits.

Or something like that. I think it's clear that you need to gain at least a few epic levels to severely smack-down PCs >level 20. However, that's true at any level, right?

Right. There are some feat like Epic Spellcasting, Devasxting Critical, Lingering Damage that will greatly increase someone's power. Plus all the defensives feats (add natural armor, raise SR, raise DR, etc) can allow for a really tough person to kill. But you don't get them all at level 21.

 

[Hammerhead]

Actually, some of the major power behind Epic characters is in their magic items. A 20th level character is supposed to have 720k. A 21st level character gains a bit more than 200k additional GP. While it's not enough to buy expensive Epic items, he can buy another +5 Tome, a Mindblank item, or some other useful things.

Also, a 21st level character is going to have an advantage versus a level 20 character, but not an overwhelming one. It is no bigger jump to go from 20-21 than to go from 19-20. Assuming that the characters are built to the same level and played with equal skill, then high level battles with only a level of separation will still be very close.

 

[Tewligan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: So what your EPIC!

I wasn't snotty. I simply asked "Why is this even here?". Why did I ask? See first answer. Why didn't I ask? See previous answer. Tell you what. I'll make a deal with you. I won't be "snotty", even though I'm not being snotty in the first place, if you won't be so pissy and prone to jump to conclusions from now on. Deal?

Oof. You're right. Shortly after posting that, I considered the possibility that I had perhaps read a little (okay, a lot) more "sass" into your first post than you had intended. Rather than go back and edit myself, I just kinda hoped that my unwarranted hissyfit would go unnoticed. Oopsie. Anyway, just wanted to send a sincere apology your way, and to take you up on the offer of me not being pissy in the future. Cool?

(Oh, and for the record, I STILL think that this thread is properly placed in the rules forum, so there! )