So what's wrong with Palladium?

[Stoat]

Slightly OT: How do you pronounce "Siembieda?"

OT: What everybody else said. The rules are clunky and (at least in the case of RIFTS) badly organized. Power creep is rampant from splat to splat. Not only are the PC options wildly unbalanced, the books provide neither the players nor the GM with a means to deal with that unbalance. For example, the only way to judge the relative power level of two classes is to read them carefully and have enough system mastery to make the judgment yourself. IMO, MDC is a good idea for missiles and bombs that translates poorly when applied to pistols and knives.

Siembieda has a reputation for squashing online discussions about the game, but I'm not sure where that came from. Back when I used to play RIFTS, there was a ton of online stuff available, and dozens of fansites.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

"The Palladium line is a horrible excuse for an RPG and by playing it it proves I was right saying you are a horrible excuse for a DM (GM). I don't even need to know the rules to say how much it sucks and how stupid anyone who plays it is, I can already tell just by your description that the world setting is far inferior to D&D's (this is the 4e setting he is talking about) and all that extra crap they crammed in was to cover up the fact that it sucks and there are more plot holes in it than any other setting. The characters are a total waste of time, they don't do anything! Even the giant robot get's killed by a smaller robot, it's a pointless game for idiots who don't know how to role play at all so they just imagine star wars and play that, because if the TV didn't tell them what characters to have, they'd be lost."

You should tell that boy that his behavior is unacceptable and that, while he is free not to participate in games that he doesn't enjoy, he would do well to refrain from insulting those that do enjoy those games.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

People always trash MDC but with a little imagination, it is the single greatest way of converting energy weapons to a tabletop game, and Mega Damage armor gives players a certain 'away from statistical' feel for their health, not to mention I have a few rules about rolling with the blows of energy weapons (if you roll high enough, it is translated to SDC damage, which may seem cheap or unrealistic, but...well its a laser gun, what part of that is realistic? but back on topic, its like moving so it just grazes the target, something like that)

And before you become critics on MDC melee weapons, have you ever seen a vibro-saber duel? It is still legendary at my table.

Also if you have Heroes Unlimited you can make SDC firearms more interesting and if the GM gives someone a chance to have their SMG turn into a terrifying weapon (another legendary moment at my table)

I consider it a heavy role-play system, on all sides. And the combat system is "clunky" to some, but again, if enough role-play is applied it adds enough options to keep your character interesting.
If we compare it to newer games (4e) then I see a huge split, which IMO the biggest problem with 4e (this is again my own opinion, if you want to call me an idiot please keep it to yourself) is the role play

I honestly feel that 4e took a lot of role-play away and moved into dice, 3e did this too, I feel having 'class skills' is best done with A. a lot of options and B. categories rather than specifics. So I like systems with either a huge amount of skills (palladium) or no skills (OD&D).
Of course you could come back and argue "But the thief always had skills!"



So to wrap this up, the Palladium system is great with narrative play, where the players and GM both take time to narrarate, a system where simply saying "I aim for the head" is a matter of life and death, while some may dislike this system, I do enjoy it, I see the Palladium system putting power in the hands of the players, enough to have the players either dominate the world or fail horribly.

 

[kinem]

I only played in one Rifts campaign and never owned the books, but I can vouch for the system being badly balanced. I decided to play a sentient robot, which the system and setting sounded well suited for. I didn't have a reference for power scale. I didn't min/max for combat power but I did choose what looked like reasonable strong options.

The clunkiness of the system was obvious - especially the fact that "robotic strength" and "supernatural strength" use entirely different scales: your strength score might be the same number as another guy's but it doesn't mean the same thing, and the robotic version is less strong for the same number. Of course, it took me a while to discover this over the course of the campaign. There were also many things that robots were vulnerable to, including basically a school of magic that grants the power to easily control them with a touch.

I underestimated the power scale of the rest of the party. At one point, out of the blue after several sessions, the GM used a really cheesy in-game way to triple my total hit points in an attempt to bring my PC up to a reasonable standard. However, it wasn't enough; I was still vastly outmatched by the tougher characters. I missed the final battle but from what I understand my PC wouldn't have lasted more than a round in it.

I also dislike some of the magic I saw, which again seemed very unbalanced.

 

[the Jester]

...So to wrap this up, the Palladium system is great with narrative play, where the players and GM both take time to narrarate, a system where simply saying "I aim for the head" is a matter of life and death, while some may dislike this system, I do enjoy it, I see the Palladium system putting power in the hands of the players, enough to have the players either dominate the world or fail horribly.

Okay, glad you enjoy it. There's nothing inherently "bad" about liking Palladium (or any other system), but you asked why people think it sucks, so of course that is the kind of answer you'll get!

 

[Corathon]

Never a revision, update or cleanup of even the crappiest product.

Actually, they have had a new edition (of Palladium Fantasy at least).

And if I might add the 'universal rules system' that d20 had really does make me happy, I can in fact take a Palladium Fantasy troll and drop it into Rifts without any need for conversion.
?

The problem with using that unconverted troll is that as soon as he takes, say, 2 MD he explodes in a fine red mist since that's 200 damage to him.

That's the general problem with MD in my opinion. A hit that scratches the paint on a Glitter Boy in armor will shred or vaporize him if he's out of his armor.

The system in general seems to have too many "I win buttons". Certainly, in 1E PFRPG, if you had carpet of adhesion or a potion of the strength of Utgard Loki you were pretty hard to beat.

While I do like the gonzo, kitchen-sink nature of the Rifts setting, I wouldn't run it as a regular game. However, in matters of taste, there can be no argument. If you enjoy the system, good for you. Have fun with it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Actually, they have had a new edition (of Palladium Fantasy at least).

They also revised RIFTS.

But have you looked at 'em? The revisions are so minuscule as to be almost nonexistent & meaningless. I recall looking at one revised book and noticed a glaring typo that hadn't been changed, so I just left the revised material sitting on gamestore shelves.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

They also revised RIFTS.

But have you looked at 'em? The revisions are so minuscule as to be almost nonexistent & meaningless. I recall looking at one revised book and noticed a glaring typo that hadn't been changed, so I just left the revised material sitting on gamestore shelves.

That is where I blame the page setting - even a word processor can find typos, but Palladium uses (used?) long strips of text one column wide, with little error checking.

In short, his cut and paste is literally cut and paste...

The Auld Grump

 

[the Jester]

Actually, they have had a new edition (of Palladium Fantasy at least).

I wasn't actually aware of that.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

Obviously the troll needs to be converted...like giving him mega damage body armor...just sayin

It was for a character build, a troll head-hunter merc who used a rail gun, which he tore off a skelebot, he was strong, fast, but yeah, without mega-damage armor hed be dead

but isn't that the case for all races? Dragons excluded.

I could play a super hero using the Heroes Unlimited rules and still have it flow with Rifts.

I enoy it, and will continue too, as GM the power scale is of little concer to me, while the combat may be "go-go-gadget-glitterboy" the roleplay and skill usage again comes down to people like the rogue scientist or the wilderness scout. It is actually not a heavy combat system, at least what I found, that it is best played as major roleplay, medium combat, minnimal puzzles. Although puzzles are endless fun no matter the system