D&D 5E So Why is 5E So Popular?

[darjr]

4E was not marketed on nostalgia that much from what I remember. Late 2E/early 3E they did puch the older stuff and adventures like Return to XYZ and the Monk returned in late 2E splat. They also brought Gygax back in Dragon.

WotC released a 4e starter box that had the Menzter basic cover on it. Some old school folks bought it for the box alone. Sure as shingles they went after nostalgia.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So Why is 5E So Popular?

Same reason as The Cosmopolitan:

"Just the Right Amount of Wrong."

So did Pathfinder though

Nope. It started playtesting a year later. It also didn't have to pull down $50 mil, minimum, to be counted successful.

Really, though, it's just one factor, and not the most important, IMHO, as RPGs really should be counter-cyclical. They're cheap, potentially escapist, entertainment. Just the thing for bad times.

4E was not marketed on nostalgia that much from what I remember

Essentials was, particularly the 'Red Box.' 4e had been designed to appeal to long-time fans who were deeply into mechanics, and to new players who just wanted fun & easy. It did both surprisingly well, but, it did it just at the time OSR got rolling, and nostalgia became the thing. So they did a bootlegger reverse with Essentials.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think a lot of the posts here get at good specific factors, but to my mind one of the most important factors in the perfect storm is the broader process which WotC has implemented for gathering data and acting on it. With 5E, they put serious work into finding out what kind of rules folks actually wanted, and what fluff worked for people. The results of this careful study hit at this particularly sweet juncture of live streaming emerging, but if the rules in place were 3.x or 4E, I seriously doubt we would see the same reaction. WotC did their homework, and produced what people actually wanted.

Nope. It started playtesting a year later. It also didn't have to pull down $50 mil, minimum, to be counted successful.

Really, though, it's just one factor, and not the most important, IMHO, as RPGs really should be counter-cyclical. They're cheap, potentially escapist, entertainment. Just the thing for bad times.

Essentials was, particularly the 'Red Box.' 4e was designed to appeal to long-time fans who were deeply into mechanics, and to new players who just wanted fun & easy. It did both surprisingly well, but, it did it just at the time OSR got rolling, and nostalgia became the thing. So they did a bootlegger reverse with Essentials.

That came later I meant in the launch window. Dragon ran articles for a year leading up to 3.0 with Gygax using his old article series name.

I the same time frame 4E released essentials red box they had re-release a good chunk of the 1E hardcover.

Yeah the red box was nostalgia but came later.
Early on we played 3.0 basically like 2E with feats. Probably changed in 2001.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I the same time frame 4E released essentials red box they had re-release a good chunk of the 1E hardcover.
Yeah the red box was nostalgia but came later.

Yep, it was a full-court-nostalgia press trying to get momentum away from OSR and back to the actual D&D brand. Encounters modules both Essentials and playtest, were full of nostalgia titles - return to this, legacy of that, legend of the other thing....

 

[Imaro]

That came later I meant in the launch window. Dragon ran articles for a year leading up to 3.0 with Gygax using his old article series name.

I the same time frame 4E released essentials red box they had re-release a good chunk of the 1E hardcover.

Yeah the red box was nostalgia but came later.
Early on we played 3.0 basically like 2E with feats. Probably changed in 2001.

Ironically enough, before it was released... wasn't 4e's marketing geared toward convincing everyone the game was the same D&D they had been playing but with "innovation" added?? Not sure if that's necessarily a nostalgia play (though it definitely has some nostalgia sprinkled in) but I do remember this teaser for 4e before it was released... Not sure if they are playing on nostalgia or trying to show nostalgia is all red-tinted glasses as opposed to reality.


[video=youtube;sbbqMoEwDqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbbqMoEwDqc[/video]

Ze game remains ze same... Yeah that was a pretty ironic teaser in hindsight, almost as if they knew something.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think a lot of the posts here get at good specific factors, but to my mind one of the most important factors in the perfect storm is the broader process which WotC has implemented for gathering data and acting on it. With 5E, they put serious work into finding out what kind of rules folks actually wanted, and what fluff worked for people. The results of this careful study hit at this particularly sweet juncture of live streaming emerging, but if the rules in place were 3.x or 4E, I seriously doubt we would see the same reaction. WotC did their homework, and produced what people actually wanted.

Ironically enough, before it was released... wasn't 4e's marketing geared toward convincing everyone the game was the same D&D they had been playing but with "innovation" added?? Not sure if that's necessarily a nostalgia play (though it definitely has some nostalgia sprinkled in) but I do remember this teaser for 4e before it was released... Not sure if they are playing on nostalgia or trying to show nostalgia is all red-tinted glasses as opposed to reality.


[video=youtube;sbbqMoEwDqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbbqMoEwDqc[/video]

Ze game remains ze same... Yeah that was a pretty ironic teaser in hindsight, almost as if they knew something.

That's fairly standard with editions or even new PHB such as 2E 1995 printing.

 

[hejtmane]

I would add also that it went back to its roots. It somehow managed to capture the traditional spirit of D&D with a more modern engine. I brought back a lot of people into the game who played in the 70s and 80s and now have more disposable income. I think it may be the only edition that effectively has done that. AND it has done this while at the same time attracking a new generation of young players who have embraced it through social media and turned it into a spectator sport / improve entertainment. The satanic panic is long gone but there is fear about video games and too much screen time is there. You actually have parents looking to get their kids into DnD for socialization and get them away from electronic media and more IRL interactions.

With these forces, a well playtested edition, and strong brand recognition, I think DnD is poised for a renaissance and 5e's success is only beginning.

I think this is the biggest reason and why I think that it has had a multiple effect; I grew up playing D&D and 1e like 99% of my young years and a little of 2e in college but most was still 1e.

Fast forward dad sitting there and young teen son finds old 1e Unearth arcana book he has on shelf starts asking question he thinks it cools and wants to learn how to play and drags in his friends. Dad has to research because all he has is one 1e book he manages to get a hold of a 3.5 book researching realizes how crazy stupid the rules are and 4e looked more like an online mmo (just the way it felt to me from what I saw never played) but 5e is coming out soon so they play a 3.5 game first because he has the 3.5 phb as a stop gap and runs it with the more know 1e rule he remembers and preorders 5e starter kit waiting to see how that will look. Gets 5e starter kits after reading the 3.5 hand back and the what 5e going to look like easy decision 5e looks and feels a little more like 1e but without some of the things I hated about 1e (not everything was hunky dory in 1e).

Son's group gets dm by his dad, which leads to Son and friends creating a Highs school club being created and they run that groupp. The group grows big enough hey had to split into two separate campaigns. Then he also starts a group at his church. So us older guys that played back in the day came back with 5e and our kids. Who then introduced it to their friends and now have played it the last 4 years are venturing out on their own taking 5e with them.

That's what I have personally seen

 

[pming]

Hiya!

My guess? DM'ing is fun again. DM'ing Pathfinder, for example, drove me nuts. Too many fiddly bits to keep track of and I had to say No ALL the time when a player would whip out a new $60 hardback book and expect to be able to use it no-questions-asked. With 5e, there isn't anywhere near the number of books with options/extras. Also, with Multiclassing and Feats being OPTIONAL in the core 5e game, it was easy to just say no to them and play on. The system is build around the assumption of them not being used. This makes it dirt simple to pull out my L1: The Secret of Bone Hill and pretty much just run it on the fly, and it will be fun and exciting. The "power level and player character power level" is much more "even" than it ever was in 3.x/PF/4e when compared to 1e/2e/BECMI.

That's my take. The 5e system empowers the DM's more than 3e+ systems did...this makes people want to DM more because they feel like they have more freedom of expression. If you get ONE person to become interested (new or 'again') to DM a game of Dungeons & Dragons...that DM will convince 2 to 5 of his/her friends to be the Players. POOF! Now WotC has 3 to 6 new sources of revenue. With, for example, Pathfinder....you have a potential DM look at the books in the FLGS and think....This looks cool...but way too much stuff! Too complicated... So that person doesn't want to DM. So that person never tries to convince 2 to 5 of his/her friends to give it a try.

As I've been saying since 3e was birthed; Focus on the DM's first...Players second. Looks like WotC is sort of trying a middle-ground approach, based on the books they've put out (Volo's, Xanathars, etc). A bunch of stuff that fits into 5e, but isn't geared "mostly for..." DM's or Players, but for both. Probably a good move.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[ExploderWizard]

5E is a very playable edition that is easy to get started playing AND running compared to the prior few editions. System creep is minimal. The game has been out for over 3 years and there isn't a stack of options books heavy enough to crush an elephant. The basic classes and play rules are free so those curious can download and play. I don't doubt that the ability to do that has led to the sale of many core books.

 

[darjr]

The phb hit #1 at Amazon again this weekend.