Social 'combat'

[Slobber Monster]

With enough planning I think I can see ways to split this up into more rolls, so long as you change Diplomacy from a means to affect attitudes to a means to resolve proposed deals.

For your latter example, I might require separate checks for the forgery, disguise, and individual lies for background. If any of these is failed then backpedalling, ad-libbing and more lies are required to avoid blowing cover. Some cumulative circumstance penalities would still get applied to later attempts because the NPC suspects there's something a little "off" about the character. The final check to see if the PC can convince the diplomat to cooperate comes down to a single roll, but the road there is a little more interesting. Even then, subsequent rolls could be allowed if the PC ups the anti with bribes, blackmail, etc.

 

[PrinceZane]

I agree with the slobber monster (and for some reason I just got this picture in my head about a slobbering jello cube...)

But yeah, go throught he checks and if the NPC does figure out he's lying, have him pull the reverse thing and start lying to the PCs to try to throw them off or to give them false info that they will "report" back to whomever, failing the quest and being dismissed or having to redo it.

 

[Slobber Monster]

I agree with the slobber monster (and for some reason I just got this picture in my head about a slobbering jello cube...)

Heh... actually inspired by a big, drooling labrador retriever I used to have.

 

[Lazarous]

I agree i could split up both those scenarios into more skill checks, but the interaction between the individual skill checks becomes a bit hazy. Even adding a single stat like social hp (sp? shrug) would make it noticably easier to track multiple checks and how they affect the total outlook of a target. Take the diplomat example - would it not be greatly simplified if the diplomat and pc had sp that was affected by the various checks they did and provided a total track of how successful the attempted persuasion was?

I suppose I could create a flowchart for major plot interactions my pc's are going to undertake, with appropriate bonuses/negatives spelled out for each interaction, but i'm also looking to lower the workload on myself as well as make the interactions more interesting.

 

[Slobber Monster]

Once again, I cannot recommend highly enough Rich's diplomacy rules. He modifies the base DC by two factors - relationship and risk/reward judgement. With the diplomat example if the PC has pulled off all of the lies then the diplomat would view them as an ally, good for a -5 adjustment to the Diplomacy DC. The PC could then further improve their chances by making it worthwhile with a bribe offer, service performed, political favor, etc. If the Diplomacy check still fails, but by less than 5, then the diplomat might make a counteroffer that would earn enough of a risk/reward adjustment to make the attempt a success.

 

[PrinceZane]

In essence leading back to what I said earlier: Circumstance bonuses...

Just have every check, or after 2-3 successful checks in a row get a + or - 1 CB until the conversing is resolved

 

[Slobber Monster]

In essence leading back to what I said earlier: Circumstance bonuses...

Just have every check, or after 2-3 successful checks in a row get a + or - 1 CB until the conversing is resolved

Well yes, but Rich's rules give pretty good guidelines for this and handles much more extreme cases well. It also accounts for the targets' level and wisdom, thus making sure that mid level bards are no longer incapable of failing diplomacy checks. OK, I'm going to quit pimping for Rich now, , but I do think his rules are enough of an improvement over core that they should be adopted in the next PHB revision.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Yup, that's the right title. Its focused more towards the debate/political arena than it is the smale scale diplomancy. For those I will echo the recommendation of Rich's work.

Using his system you can add addional skill checks based on bribery or taking other tactics. You will still need to come up with a basic script for the NPCs. A good example is bribing a guard to let you into the party.. You need to know how long he is willing to put up with pestering non-invited guests before becoming unfreindly, how much value he will place on breaking the rules, and how he responds to the basic means of confrontation.
Meaning of course, bribery, flattery, intimidation, sweet talk, and pure BS talk.

I guess you could add onto Rich's system by giving NPCs a tally of how each type of advance works on them, and allow a Sense Motive check to be used (after a minute of conversation) to detemine which method would be best.

The next step would be prepping the target, Bluff/Intinimdate/Diplomancy/Seduction, etc checks.

Then you would have the final Diplomancy roll with modifiers from the first two steps added in.

I would be interesting is seeing this idea fleshed out, altho right now I have not the time

 

[Hypersmurf]

I have a vague memory Takyris was working on a social combat system at some point, but I could be misremembering.

I'll see if I can direct him to this thread.

-Hyp.