D&D 5E Solving the 5MWD

Yep. longer rest times certainly help by giving you more space in the fiction to provide in fiction consequences.

That said, any rest timeframe is going to have issues. If your long and short rests are to long then you can't have the players go through a dungeon that's going to require a short rest in the middle to get through - as the short rest in this scenario would be a day+ and that's not a sensible thing to do in the middle of a dungeon - when even an hour would be pushing it.

Why give short-rests an arbitrary time-frame?
Have the recovery rate tied to a skill check which becomes harder and harder as you keep short-resting - with the risk of exhaustion. Have the long rest abilities be recovered in the same way but be much harder based on the time taken from your last long rest, but have a proper long rest require a full 24 hours of doing nothing.

We have been using such a system for well over a year with no issues.

BUT overly cautious players will be overly cautious players. There is no way getting around that.
 

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I had an interesting idea and wanted to share and hammer out some of the details.

1. Tie ability recharges to level up. For example spell slots only recharge on level up. Obviously the number of slots needs increased but that should be doable.
2. Keep healing and hit die mechanics tied to resting - potentially also slow the rate at which you heal through resting.

Does this solve the 5MWD issue? Are there any foreseeable issues with this setup? Would it be more fun to play this way?

A hard mechanical fix is to have short/ long rest resources recharge ONLY after X/Y number of encounters.

Or you can have the end of a session be an automatic short rest, and the 1st session of each calendar month be a long rest instead (presuming 3-5 sessions per month).

Or simply by saying 'No'. I mean the 5MWD is largely a player metagame consideration in any event. Tell them the expectation is that the 5MWD is not to be used and abused at the table, and if they do anyway, say No (and have an adult chat with them). If they still complain, punish them ;)
 

Why give short-rests an arbitrary time-frame?
Have the recovery rate tied to a skill check which becomes harder and harder as you keep short-resting - with the risk of exhaustion. Have the long rest abilities be recovered in the same way but be much harder based on the time taken from your last long rest, but have a proper long rest require a full 24 hours of doing nothing.

We have been using such a system for well over a year with no issues.

BUT overly cautious players will be overly cautious players. There is no way getting around that.
We tried using a check for recovery (a saving throw, effectively). For us it did not work. Players felt bad about not knowing which abilities would be up after each rest.

After trying several mechanics, we settled on 1 day for short rests and 3 days for long, with a 1 hour breather for spending hit dice. And time equal to the rest time had to pass before having another (e.g. at least 3 days between each 3 day long rest.) Although yes, in theory players can still be cautious and rest between encounters, in practice this was just enough plot time that players bought into events moving forward and often pushed on. We found that a week for long rests was too punishing for long-rest classes, hence the tweak to 3 days.

There were also beneficial effects on background magic availability assumptions, such as high-level revival magic. This resulted in a lower-magic campaign, which suited me well.
 


We tried using a check for recovery (a saving throw, effectively). For us it did not work. Players felt bad about not knowing which abilities would be up after each rest.

Different system. With us if you choose to recover your abilities, they are automatically refreshed. It does not make sense for us that you would have to roll to see if you can redo something you already should know how to do.

The only reason for rolling would be to determine if the PC pushed himself too far (exhaustion levels)
So you can still cast the spell but you're worse off and only a Long Rest can cure that.
 

SPOILER ALERT
Santa Klaus does not exist.
In DnD challenge is mostly setup by the DM.

The truth is, Dm choose xp budget, he adjust it according to party size, experience, behavior, style of play. In DnD we mostly do reasonable fight for our level. It is setup.

The Dm may also adjust resting the same way he does for xp budget.
allowing an insta short or even a long rest before an important fight may be the best solution to avoid breaking dramatic pacing of the story.
it may not suit every table. Some table may find this completely non sense.
know your players expectation is crucial for a DM.

to hope for an objective system that manage challenge, rest, level progression, wealth is somewhere like hoping for Santa klaus.
 

SPOILER ALERT
Santa Klaus does not exist.
In DnD challenge is mostly setup by the DM.

The truth is, Dm choose xp budget, he adjust it according to party size, experience, behavior, style of play. In DnD we mostly do reasonable fight for our level. It is setup.

The Dm may also adjust resting the same way he does for xp budget.
allowing an insta short or even a long rest before an important fight may be the best solution to avoid breaking dramatic pacing of the story.
it may not suit every table. Some table may find this completely non sense.
know your players expectation is crucial for a DM.

to hope for an objective system that manage challenge, rest, level progression, wealth is somewhere like hoping for Santa klaus.
Hey now! If you're going to do spoilers the least you could do is but it in spoiler tags!

I was really looking forward to XMas and now all hope is lost. 😕

Oh well, I guess the Easter Bunny isn't that far off.
 

The best thing for avoiding any short-workday problem - and I speak here from experience - is to have players (and thus by extension characters) who have extremely low boredom thresholds. Then, whenever they start resting too much, all you-as-DM need to do is make it boring and they'll get their characters doing something instead of resting.
What, like play through the 1 hr lunch break or 8 hr nap in detail?

I'm sorry, that's not making the rest boring, that's making your game boring.

This is a bigger issue. The DM can not be the sole decider of both what encounters will be and when resource recovery can occur. The issue is that if anything goes wrong for the players then at that point it's solely the DM's fault.
Can the DM really avoid being ultimately responsible for both those things? I mean, even if he plays 'by the book' and 'hands off,' he's still /choosing to run that way/.

This isn't really true though. You are compensated with a lot of extra spell slots when you level. You get a large finite amount now instead of a quasi-infinite amount. The only limitation of the current method being how many rests will my character be limited to before he levels - which is mostly a character decision and thus infinite spells!
OK, this is an aspect I hadn't really considered.

Since 3.0, D&D has been a finite game. 20 levels and you're done. Really, it always has been, since it just stopped working pretty quickly as you got to double-digit levels, but it at least had these open-ended exp tables so you felt like it didn't have to end (you'd all be playing arch-magi and/or artifact-custodians or something eventually, but it didn't /have/ to end, in theory). ;)

Even if the 5MWD were taken to the systematic extreme, you'd only have finite spells used in the course of adventuring, and, even if daily spells were systematically utilized in downtime, the lifespan of the character would render them finite (though HUGE) in number.

Compared to that, even several times usual n/day (and converting short-rest-recharge to n/day, which, given the guidelines, means roughly tripling them, IIRC) each level would be curtailing theoretical impact of systematic spellcasting.

But, I don't think you need several times. At apprentice Tier, the xp to level is equal to the daily xp budget, so extant daily slots should do it, at least to see you through to level 3. Level 4 it takes 1.5 times the daily xp budget to reach 5th, and from there, till you've hit 11th, it's over double. But not a lot, never as high as 2.5, for instance, tops is about 2 1/3.
Beyond 11 it wavers around 1.5, as low as 1.43 as high as 1.74(12-13, don't know what's special about that - 7th level spells? more likely just round-looking numbers on the table).

I actually think the extant daily resources would be fine to see you through a level, especially given that you might have plenty of opportunity to recover hps/HD during that level, so should need recourse to healing spells less often, and can also thus leverage at-will abilities more effectively. At first level, you'd be in about the same boat, but as you leveled it'd get more challenging.

OTOH, it might make sense to increase the exp required to level from 11 on up, or to reduce the daily resources at those levels, because, otherwise, the game's just going to get increasingly easy, by comparison.

SPOILER ALERT
Santa Klaus does not exist.
In DnD challenge is mostly setup by the DM.
Sounds like Santa Claus does exist - in the person of the DM - the system can be as effed up as ever, the players as fractious as can be, and the DM will just set up everything exactly right to make his campaign perfect (or at least OK).
As the grognard cohort gets on in years, more and more DMs are gonna look the part, too. ;)
 
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Sounds like Santa Claus does exist - in the person of the DM - the system can be as effed up as ever, the players as fractious as can be, and the DM will just set up everything exactly right to make his campaign perfect (or at least OK).
As the grognard cohort gets on in years, more and more DMs are gonna look the part, too. ;)
Dm have often a lot of gifts to give, we just have to jump in their trailer.
 


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