D&D 5E Solving the 5MWD

[FrogReaver]

I had an interesting idea and wanted to share and hammer out some of the details.

1. Tie ability recharges to level up. For example spell slots only recharge on level up. Obviously the number of slots needs increased but that should be doable.
2. Keep healing and hit die mechanics tied to resting - potentially also slow the rate at which you heal through resting.

Does this solve the 5MWD issue? Are there any foreseeable issues with this setup? Would it be more fun to play this way?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Y'know, in a sense, it's un-solving.

Because, in that sense, the resource-management nano-strategy-sub-meta-game is a "solved game," like tic-tac-toe: the 5MWD is the resultant "correct" play.

But that's just a philosophical aside, fatuous, really.

I had an interesting idea and wanted to share and hammer out some of the details.

1. Tie ability recharges to level up. For example spell slots only recharge on level up. Obviously the number of slots needs increased but that should be doable.

Since level up is tied to XP, and XP to number and difficulty of encounters, that's a variation on the 13th Age solution of the "full heal up" after every 4th encounter. That certainly works, so this should work, in principle.

Complicating it, more resources over a larger number of encounters will both give greater flexibility to resource-heavy classes, and make most encounters feel even "easier."

I suppose there's also some room to 'game' it, by seeking other, or less resource-intensive sources of XP.

2. Keep healing and hit die mechanics tied to resting - potentially also slow the rate at which you heal through resting.

And that further complicated it, but in a good way - by making healing available on a different schedule, it's at least possible for at-will abilities to see a LOT of use, without being held back by the need to heal, and thus recharge everything else, as well.

 

[cbwjm]

Sounds terrible and decidedly not fun, I would not enjoy this unless it was determined beforehand that we would be levelling up after each adventure. Even then, the adventures would have to be really constrained, a long drawn out quest that eroded all of our spells and abilities so that we had nothing towards the end would feel like a hell of a slog.

 

[Lanefan]

I had an interesting idea and wanted to share and hammer out some of the details.

1. Tie ability recharges to level up. For example spell slots only recharge on level up. Obviously the number of slots needs increased but that should be doable.

This would nerf casters to the point of complete uselessness in my game, where level-up is a rare and wondrous thing.

More generally, it really plays against any attempt to slow down the overall level-advance rate and thus prolong one's campaign; so count me as opposed to this one on principle.

It also penalizes higher-level characters in a mixed-level party, as they won't be advancing as often.

 

[Shiroiken]

Expect your party to primarily consist of Fighters, Monks, Rogues, and Warlocks, since their abilities would still recharge on a short rest. Full Casters would be almost non-existent, except maybe the Moon Druid, since just about all of their abilities are tied to long rest. Barbarians, Paladins, and Rangers might see some play, but they'll be greatly weakened.

Something else to consider, is that you should not use XP with this. You need to have a standardized setup, such as milestone or session leveling, in order to make this work. Otherwise, if the party begins to fail, they won't have the resources to continue, and can't ever get enough xp to recover their abilities. This death spiral will destroy the campaign, causing you to have to relent or just give them an undeserved level to keep it going.

 

[FrogReaver]

Expect your party to primarily consist of Fighters, Monks, Rogues, and Warlocks, since their abilities would still recharge on a short rest. Full Casters would be almost non-existent, except maybe the Moon Druid, since just about all of their abilities are tied to long rest. Barbarians, Paladins, and Rangers might see some play, but they'll be greatly weakened.

Something else to consider, is that you should not use XP with this. You need to have a standardized setup, such as milestone or session leveling, in order to make this work. Otherwise, if the party begins to fail, they won't have the resources to continue, and can't ever get enough xp to recover their abilities. This death spiral will destroy the campaign, causing you to have to relent or just give them an undeserved level to keep it going.

Short rest abilities would work the same way I described.

If the party begins to fail they can still rereat and get their hp back. They will just have to come up with a plan that doesn't involve going head first at the current enemy - or finding some NPC's to help them - or they die/retire and bring in new PC's and get their sweet revenge - lots of other possibilities.

 

[FrogReaver]

Sounds terrible and decidedly not fun, I would not enjoy this unless it was determined beforehand that we would be levelling up after each adventure. Even then, the adventures would have to be really constrained, a long drawn out quest that eroded all of our spells and abilities so that we had nothing towards the end would feel like a hell of a slog.

Or alternatively you could pace your spells and have some left at the end?

 

[FrogReaver]

This would nerf casters to the point of complete uselessness in my game, where level-up is a rare and wondrous thing.

More generally, it really plays against any attempt to slow down the overall level-advance rate and thus prolong one's campaign; so count me as opposed to this one on principle.

It also penalizes higher-level characters in a mixed-level party, as they won't be advancing as often.

Not sure what the first or 2nd means.

Good observation on the mixed level parties. My campaigns typically don't use them so I don't think about them.

 

[FrogReaver]

Something else to consider, is that you should not use XP with this. You need to have a standardized setup, such as milestone or session leveling, in order to make this work. Otherwise, if the party begins to fail, they won't have the resources to continue, and can't ever get enough xp to recover their abilities. This death spiral will destroy the campaign, causing you to have to relent or just give them an undeserved level to keep it going.

God forbid we actually push characters to the point of having to use at-will abilities - Something that every single balance point between long rest classes and at-will classes assumes is built in. Yea we certainly can't let that happen. TIC of course

 

[FrogReaver]

Since level up is tied to XP, and XP to number and difficulty of encounters, that's a variation on the 13th Age solution of the "full heal up" after every 4th encounter. That certainly works, so this should work, in principle.

Complicating it, more resources over a larger number of encounters will both give greater flexibility to resource-heavy classes, and make most encounters feel even "easier."

I can't imagine it feeling easier than the ability to recharge all your parties abilities nearly any time you want.

And yes, this was somewhat inspired by the 13th age solution - except I dislike the arbitrariness of getting abilities back after X encounters - which is why I proposed to tie it to something with some sort of fictional meaning. In this case the level up. However, the basic premise would also allow you to do it at every .5 level or really any fraction of a level you desire.

I suppose there's also some room to 'game' it, by seeking other, or less resource-intensive sources of XP.

I think that might just be a feature

And that further complicated it, but in a good way - by making healing available on a different schedule, it's at least possible for at-will abilities to see a LOT of use, without being held back by the need to heal, and thus recharge everything else, as well.

Yep! It also allows healing rates to be more finely adjusted to the DM's desire since they aren't directly tied to anything else. So now your 1 hp per night crowd can do their thing and the full hp overnight crowd can do there's and there will be much less difference in the overall challenge of any given adventure.