Some questions on the Hide skill (world's dumbest rule question?)

[mikebr99]

I have defintely treated this as a house rule situation - i.e., it doesn't explicitly state anywhere in the 3.0 Core Rules that the Hide skill can be used to Sneak Attack, but it's just common sense. As for which situations it can be used in, I tend to wing it. If the rogue can pull off a quick Hide check in a surprise round (given a place to hide, of course), they're good to go with a SA on their next round. I haven't actually had to rule on sneaking up from a hiding place to make a melee SA, so far the rogues in the parties I've run all like to snipe from hiding. I've usually limited to the one shot, unless they can get to another hiding spot, but I'll have to work that -20 sniping rule in.

Hiding while attacking is a move action... so they only have a std. action left to attack in a round anyway. You aren't allowing a full attack action from a hidden position are you?

You need a ring (or spell) of blinking or greater invis for that...

Mike

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Hiding while attacking is a move action... so they only have a std. action left to attack in a round anyway. You aren't allowing a full attack action from a hidden position are you?

You need a ring (or spell) of blinking or greater invis for that...

Mike

I believe Spring Attack also works for this.

Ken

 

[mikebr99]

I believe Spring Attack also works for this.

Ken

How does the Spring attack feat get you a full attack action?

Mike

 

[DestroyYouAlot]

Hiding while attacking is a move action... so they only have a std. action left to attack in a round anyway. You aren't allowing a full attack action from a hidden position are you?

I'm not sure how it is in 3.5 (ok, actually I am, I just checked the SRD), but in 3.0 there isn't a defined "hiding while attacking" action, you would simply move half your speed while hiding (full speed if you don't mind a -5 penalty) as a move-equivalent, and attack as a standard. I guess I'm confused as to where a full-round action would come into the picture.

Unless you're referring to "unless they can get to another hiding spot"? If that's what you're referring to, what I mean is that I usually wouldn't have allowed a character to a) hide in round 1, b) fire on a target in round 2 (for a sneak attack), and c) hide in the same round, in the same place - the logic being, that, unless you had full concealment (and therefore couldn't attack from that position in the first place), you had broken your cover to that particular opponent, and would need to find a new hiding spot. However, with the -20 "sniping" check described above, I would probably allow this now. I wasn't referring to "moving while hiding, (sneak) attacking, and then moving and hiding again."

Or maybe I'm just confused.


Edit: Wait, you weren't under the impression that a sneak attack was a full-round action, were you?

Other edit: Ohhh, I get it, you're talking about limiting to "one shot" as opposed to a full-round attack action, with several shots - I was referring to more than one standard attack action across multiple rounds.

 

[mikebr99]

Edit: Wait, you weren't under the impression that a sneak attack was a full-round action, were you?

no.

But the Sniping mechanic might as well be classified as a full round action... as hiding while attacking is a move equiv. all by itself, and shooting one <something> is the std. action. So all you have left is a 5ft. step for actual movement.

Using the hide skill to SA is never going to allow a full attack, you need to flank or be blinking or be greater invisible. I guess the Pounce ability might allow it, if you are proficient enough... YMMV.

Mike

 

[DestroyYouAlot]

But the Sniping mechanic might as well be classified as a full round action... as hiding while attacking is a move equiv. all by itself, and shooting one <something> is the std. action. So all you have left is a 5ft. step for actual movement.

Using the hide skill to SA is never going to allow a full attack, you need to flank or be blinking or be greater invisible. I guess the Pounce ability might allow it, if you are proficient enough... YMMV.

Ok, so you were talking about a full-round action. I guess what I'm getting at is that, once you've hidden in a previous round, that's it - you're hidden. Unless you go somewhere, you don't need to make another action or check, so you would simply a) attack (breaking cover, obviously), and b) hide. No conflict, there. Obviously you're going to need some magical assistance if you want to full-round attack, though.

 

[mikebr99]

Ok, so you were talking about a full-round action. I guess what I'm getting at is that, once you've hidden in a previous round, that's it - you're hidden. Unless you go somewhere, you don't need to make another action or check, so you would simply a) attack (breaking cover, obviously), and b) hide. No conflict, there. Obviously you're going to need some magical assistance if you want to full-round attack, though.

But b)hide can't be accomplished without HiPS.... because the target is certainly going to be watching you if you just attacked him.

And if by a) attack... you mean shoot someone with an arrow or bolt, then you have to use the sniping mechanic, or the attack wont get the extra SA damage.

If by a) attack... you mean that you are stabing someone, then the rules in Complete Adventurer outline the amount of distance you can travel and the Hide penalties associated with getting there to stab once... but you wouldn't have any actions left in your round to b) hide... as you've used both your move and your std. actions already.

Spring Attacking from a hidden position could get you there... attack once and then back behind cover though.


Mike

 

[DestroyYouAlot]

I'm just talking about across multiple rounds: Hide (round 1, presumably before you're seen), SA (round 2), then go hide somewhere else that round or the next. And I'm not talking about hiding behind a coatrack or something, I mean hiding with complete concealment and/or cover. If you get fully out of sight, like down a manhole or into a building (or whatever), then hide somewhere else the next round (like at a window/arrowslit, another manhole, etc.), then (IMHO) you can do it. You don't need Hide in Plain Sight, just... er... Hide Completely out of Target's Field of Vision. Which I'm not sure is in the RAW.

Now, as far as a melee SA, that I haven't seen the rules for, and (as I don't have Complete Adventurer) I don't suppose I will, unless I make some @#^ up.

 

[buzz]

And if by a) attack... you mean shoot someone with an arrow or bolt, then you have to use the sniping mechanic, or the attack wont get the extra SA damage.

You don't need to snipe to make a ranged SA; you only need to snipe if you want to be hidden after the attack as well as befiore.

If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a -20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot.

If you blow the Hide check on the snipe, that just means that you've revealed yourself.

 

[buzz]

Now, as far as a melee SA, that I haven't seen the rules for, and (as I don't have Complete Adventurer) I don't suppose I will, unless I make some @#^ up.

The excellent Iron Heroes has a thing called ambush, iirc, which is basically melee snipe with a penatly of -30 instead of -20.